韩国网民：因为我跟他们说了中国游客在韩国的不雅行为，我和中国朋友们闹翻了
正文翻译
I had a fall out with Chinese friends
我和中国朋友们闹翻了
I’m Korean and currently living abroad (citizen of both countries). I became close friends with two Chinese international students in uni and had continuing friendship for about 4 years.
我是韩国人，目前旅居海外（拥有两国国籍）。我在大学里和两名中国留学生成了好朋友，这段友谊持续了大约四年。
Recently, there have been multiple incidents in Korea involving tourists behaving disrespectfully toward cultural sites, along with public debates around cultural ownership and how these situations are handled legally. For example, Chinese people taking a dump on our monumental site -Gyeongbok palace. Or posting a media of a Chinese woman roaming around the palace wearing hanfu (Chinese traditional clothes) specifically claiming Hanbok (Korean traditional clothes) was traditionally Chinese’ And showcasing Hanfu’s superiority. Or that Kimchi is their food etc. the list goes on. And don’t get me started on the surging crime rates in China town in Korea.
近期韩国发生了多起涉及游客对文化遗址不敬的事件，同时也掀起了关于文化所有权问题及法定处理方式的公开讨论。比如中国游客在景福宫随地便溺；有中国女性穿着汉服拍摄视频宣称韩服源自中国传统服饰，并鼓吹汉服优越性；或是宣称泡菜原属中国饮食等等。更不必提韩国唐人街日益猖獗的犯罪率。
I shared that I wished Korea would apply stricter rules to the Chinese as they are crossing a lot of boundaries compared to other tourist group. They disrespected Korea on so many levels. Korea has such a weak law reenforcement when it comes to this as well, especially with the recent law proposal on criminalising Koreans criticizing China or Chinese person with 5 year jail time potentially.
我提到希望韩国能对中国游客实施更严格的规定，因为与其他旅游群体相比，他们屡屡越界。他们在多个层面对韩国表现出不尊重，而韩国在这方面的执法力度实在太弱——尤其是最近甚至有人提议将韩国人批评中国或中国人的言论刑事化，最高可判五年监禁。
I explained that if Koreans behave badly overseas, I feel ashamed and don’t excuse it either. And I put my best behaviour whereever I visit out of respect and - common sense. I will criticize anyone including Koreans, if they deserve it.
我解释道，如果韩国人在海外行为不端，我也会感到羞耻且绝不袒护。无论去往何处，我都会以尊重和基本的常识表现出最佳举止。无论是谁——包括韩国人——只要行为出格，我都会直言不讳地批评。
However, my friends became defensive. They questioned why I lived abroad if I cared so much about Korea and suggested I should “go back to Korea and protest there then”(????) and dismissed some of the incidents I mentioned. One of the girl literally started to give me list of excuses for the behaviour saying “maybe he really needed to go to toilet.”
然而朋友们立刻开启了防御模式。他们反问我既然这么在乎韩国，为何还要定居海外，甚至说"那你干脆回韩国去抗议啊"(？？？)，还轻描淡写地否定了我提及的部分事件。其中一个女孩居然开始逐条为那些行为找借口，说什么"说不定那个人真的急需上厕所"。
The conversation got escalated into comparisons and deflection, and it felt like we were no longer addressing the same point.
对话逐渐演变成相互攀比和转移话题，我们根本不在讨论同一个重点了。
Don‘t get me wrong. I do love China, and their culture. Finding similarity in both our cultures are obvious as Korea was a tributary country to China historically. I’ve travelled to China before and genuinely loved it, and I would never think to misbehave just because I “feel“ like it.
别误会。我确实热爱中国及其文化。我们两国文化存在相似之处是显而易见的，毕竟历史上朝鲜曾是中国的藩属国。我曾去过中国旅行并真心喜欢那里，绝不会因为一时"情绪"而做出失礼行为。
Anyway, our friendship ended on bitter note sadly.
遗憾的是，我们的友谊最终不欢而散。
This made me realize how difficult it can be to discuss political or cultural issues across national identities, even with close friends.
这让我意识到，即便与挚友讨论涉及民族认同的政治或文化议题，也可能异常艰难。
Has anyone else lost friendships over political or cultural disagreements? How did you handle it, or what did you learn from it?- Because I still stand firm on my beliefs.
还有谁因政治或文化分歧失去过友谊？你们是如何应对的？或从中领悟到什么？——因为我依然坚持自己的立场。
I had a fall out with Chinese friends
我和中国朋友们闹翻了
I’m Korean and currently living abroad (citizen of both countries). I became close friends with two Chinese international students in uni and had continuing friendship for about 4 years.
我是韩国人，目前旅居海外（拥有两国国籍）。我在大学里和两名中国留学生成了好朋友，这段友谊持续了大约四年。
Recently, there have been multiple incidents in Korea involving tourists behaving disrespectfully toward cultural sites, along with public debates around cultural ownership and how these situations are handled legally. For example, Chinese people taking a dump on our monumental site -Gyeongbok palace. Or posting a media of a Chinese woman roaming around the palace wearing hanfu (Chinese traditional clothes) specifically claiming Hanbok (Korean traditional clothes) was traditionally Chinese’ And showcasing Hanfu’s superiority. Or that Kimchi is their food etc. the list goes on. And don’t get me started on the surging crime rates in China town in Korea.
近期韩国发生了多起涉及游客对文化遗址不敬的事件，同时也掀起了关于文化所有权问题及法定处理方式的公开讨论。比如中国游客在景福宫随地便溺；有中国女性穿着汉服拍摄视频宣称韩服源自中国传统服饰，并鼓吹汉服优越性；或是宣称泡菜原属中国饮食等等。更不必提韩国唐人街日益猖獗的犯罪率。
I shared that I wished Korea would apply stricter rules to the Chinese as they are crossing a lot of boundaries compared to other tourist group. They disrespected Korea on so many levels. Korea has such a weak law reenforcement when it comes to this as well, especially with the recent law proposal on criminalising Koreans criticizing China or Chinese person with 5 year jail time potentially.
我提到希望韩国能对中国游客实施更严格的规定，因为与其他旅游群体相比，他们屡屡越界。他们在多个层面对韩国表现出不尊重，而韩国在这方面的执法力度实在太弱——尤其是最近甚至有人提议将韩国人批评中国或中国人的言论刑事化，最高可判五年监禁。
I explained that if Koreans behave badly overseas, I feel ashamed and don’t excuse it either. And I put my best behaviour whereever I visit out of respect and - common sense. I will criticize anyone including Koreans, if they deserve it.
我解释道，如果韩国人在海外行为不端，我也会感到羞耻且绝不袒护。无论去往何处，我都会以尊重和基本的常识表现出最佳举止。无论是谁——包括韩国人——只要行为出格，我都会直言不讳地批评。
However, my friends became defensive. They questioned why I lived abroad if I cared so much about Korea and suggested I should “go back to Korea and protest there then”(????) and dismissed some of the incidents I mentioned. One of the girl literally started to give me list of excuses for the behaviour saying “maybe he really needed to go to toilet.”
然而朋友们立刻开启了防御模式。他们反问我既然这么在乎韩国，为何还要定居海外，甚至说"那你干脆回韩国去抗议啊"(？？？)，还轻描淡写地否定了我提及的部分事件。其中一个女孩居然开始逐条为那些行为找借口，说什么"说不定那个人真的急需上厕所"。
The conversation got escalated into comparisons and deflection, and it felt like we were no longer addressing the same point.
对话逐渐演变成相互攀比和转移话题，我们根本不在讨论同一个重点了。
Don‘t get me wrong. I do love China, and their culture. Finding similarity in both our cultures are obvious as Korea was a tributary country to China historically. I’ve travelled to China before and genuinely loved it, and I would never think to misbehave just because I “feel“ like it.
别误会。我确实热爱中国及其文化。我们两国文化存在相似之处是显而易见的，毕竟历史上朝鲜曾是中国的藩属国。我曾去过中国旅行并真心喜欢那里，绝不会因为一时"情绪"而做出失礼行为。
Anyway, our friendship ended on bitter note sadly.
遗憾的是，我们的友谊最终不欢而散。
This made me realize how difficult it can be to discuss political or cultural issues across national identities, even with close friends.
这让我意识到，即便与挚友讨论涉及民族认同的政治或文化议题，也可能异常艰难。
Has anyone else lost friendships over political or cultural disagreements? How did you handle it, or what did you learn from it?- Because I still stand firm on my beliefs.
还有谁因政治或文化分歧失去过友谊？你们是如何应对的？或从中领悟到什么？——因为我依然坚持自己的立场。
评论翻译
Ok-Awareness4778 As a Chinese myself I get sick of hearing about other Chinese people causing trouble in other countries. I can't respect anyone that doesn't show respect to other people.
作为一个中国人，我也很反感听说中国人在国外惹麻烦的新闻。不尊重他人的人不值得我尊重。
Please punish them to the full extent of your law. Show them consequence of action.
请按照你们的法律严惩他们。让他们明白行为的后果。
iHate_RonEbens Same. I also Wish China dose the same to foreigners causing trouble in China.
我也一样。希望中国对在中国惹事的外国人也采取同样措施。
Noonecanfindmenow I hate when people are not able to admit fault. Like, everyone has issues, just because you admit to them doesn't mean you think you're inferior and that other people are perfect. I find this problem with almost every non western person I talk to actually.
我讨厌死不认错的人。每个人都有缺点，承认缺点并不意味着你觉得低人一等，也不代表别人就完美无缺。说实话，几乎所有我交谈过的非西方人都有这个问题。
But I do think one big thing about Chinese specifically, is how in the west atleast every "gross" or inferior thing is assumed to be Chinese, while anything cute or cool is assumed to be Korean or Japanese. It's a defense mechanism for sure. And just a topic overall best to be avoided.
但我认为中国人的一个显著特点是，至少在西方，所有"恶心"或低劣的东西都被默认是中国产的，而任何可爱酷炫的东西都被当作韩国或日本的。这当然是一种防御机制。这种话题最好完全避开。
Like what do you want your Chinese friend to say? "yes they shouldn't shit in public"? Like.... Obviously, it goes without saying. Why should that even come out of their mouth.
不然你想让你中国朋友说什么？"没错他们不该当街拉屎"？拜托....这根本不用说。凭什么要人家亲口承认这种事。
Illustrious-Okra-524 His friends didn’t do anything wrong why do they have to apologize for some other person?
他的朋友们又没做错什么，干嘛要为别人道歉？
calaeno0824 They don't have to apologize for other people, they just have to agree the things other did were wrong. Which is the crazy part because instead they got defensive.
他们不需要替他人道歉，只需承认那些行为确实不当即可。但离谱的是他们反而开始防卫性反击。
velvethowl What OP wants is assurance from his friends that such ugly behavior is not normalized or acceptable in China but instead receives a defence of such ugly acts. I guess such behavior is indeed normalized and defensible by the Chinese. Speaking as a Chinese.
发帖人所期待的，是朋友们能表态"这类丑陋行为在中国并非常态也无法接受"，但得到的却是对这种恶劣行径的辩护。作为一个中国人，我不得不承认这种行为确实已被规范化，并且在某些同胞眼中是值得捍卫的。
Misogynist-youth When my brother didn't put away his dishes, and my mom complained to me for the 11th time, I'll also react by saying "what's the point of telling me this?!"
我哥没收拾餐具时，我妈第 11 次跑来向我抱怨，我也会脱口而出"跟我说这个有什么用？！"
Should I bring up an idol scandal or suicide to a Korean friend everytime I come across one such news/rumor on social media?
难道我每次在社交媒体上看到韩国偶像的丑闻或自杀新闻/谣言，都要跑去跟韩国朋友讨论吗？
Remote_Volume_3609 The better question I have for OP is, what was the response they wanted from their "friends?" Did they want them to apologise for what some random tourists did? What exactly did OP want with bringing up "surging crime rates in Chinatowns in Korea" (OP, go look at Koreatowns and see what the Koreatowns of Japan are known for lol. Or see what Koreatown in LA is known for (google LA 1992 to get a quick hint)).
我想问楼主一个更切题的问题：你原本期待这些"朋友"给出什么回应？是想让他们为某些陌生游客的行为道歉吗？楼主提到"韩国唐人街犯罪率激增"到底想达成什么目的？（楼主不妨去看看日本的韩国城以什么闻名，或者查查洛杉矶韩国城的"光辉历史"——谷歌搜索"洛杉矶 1992"就能 get 到提示了）。
nagidon What do those incidents have to do with your friends? Were they personally responsible? Or did you feel like you needed to point it out simply because of the nationality connection?
这些事件和你朋友有什么关系？是他们个人的责任吗？还是你觉得仅仅因为国籍关联就必须指出来？
Illustrious-Okra-524 I don’t really understand why you have to make it about all Chinese people instead of the specific badly behaving ones.
我不太明白为什么你要上升成全体中国人，而不是针对那些具体行为不当的人。
You’re telling us you told your “friends” that you hope your home government makes it harder for them to visit your country, WHILE IN THEIR country, and you’re surprised they felt negatively about that?
你当着在人家国家做客时，告诉自己的"朋友"说你希望自己国家的政府加大对他们的入境限制——现在却惊讶他们对此有负面情绪？
pantotheface888 You should do some self-reflection about how you communicated your points because it's not what you say but rather how you say it. Most of communication is non-verbal, so whatever vibe you were giving was what offended them most likely.
你应该反思一下自己表达观点的方式，因为问题不在于说了什么，而在于怎么说。大部分沟通都是非语言的，所以你当时散发的氛围很可能才是冒犯他们的关键。
Or they were just dicks.
要不就是他们本来就不讲道理。
Or it's a combination of both your fault and theirs. Who knows? I wasn't there.
或许你们双方都有错。谁知道呢？我又不在场。
Remote_Volume_3609 Right? Someone else said it, but you can agree with a point but still dislike how it was brought up. For example, I could say something like "the only reason South Korea exists is because the US bailed it out and China could nuke it out of existence if it wanted to."
对吧？别人提的观点你可以认同，但依然可以不喜欢对方表达的方式。比如说，我来句"韩国能存在全靠美国救命，中国要愿意的话一颗核弹就能灭了它"。
This is a factual statement. It's also? Rude, awful and stupid to say. What's the point of me saying it to my Korean friends? What is the intended outcome or expectation?
这话是事实。但同时呢？说这种话既粗鲁又恶毒还愚蠢。我对韩国朋友说这种话图什么？到底想达成什么效果或期待？
All I can say is, judging by what OP said (surging crime rates in Chinatown in Korea???) I live in Los Angeles and I could totally tell random Koreans "Koreatown in Los Angeles is very dangerous, there's a huge surging crime rate there and I just could never imagine living there." I'm not sure exactly what I'd be accomplishing there?
我只能说，根据原贴描述（韩国唐人街犯罪率激增？？？）我住在洛杉矶，完全可以随便找个韩国人说"洛杉矶的韩国城非常危险，那边犯罪率飙升得厉害，我根本无法想象住在那儿。" 但我不确定这种言论到底能达成什么目的？
nahuhnot4me Right. Op is picking a fight that should never have been a fight and I bet you that says more about a destructive habit he picked up as a kid and it’s affecting his adult life.
确实。/OP 挑起了一场本不该存在的争执，我敢打赌这更反映出他儿时养成的破坏性习性，如今正在影响他的成年生活。
Sounds like Op could really benefit from a therapist. Good friends are able to support and the ones that are fair weather.
听起来楼主真的需要心理咨询师的帮助。真正的朋友应该能够相互支持，而不是只能同享乐。
royalblue9999 You lost your friendships because you wanted to argue for Korea and they wanted to argue for China. So nationalism vs nationalism. Congratulations, you all won.
你们失去了友谊，因为你执意为韩国争辩而他们执意为中国辩护。这是民族主义对上了民族主义。恭喜，你们都赢了。
Forsaken_Nature_7943 I'm sorry for you. Sometimes we should avoid certain topics that you have no power to change.
很遗憾你遇到这种情况。对某些无力改变的话题，我们有时应该避免讨论。
nelson931214 or address those topics so you can see who are the ones you should actually be friends with lol
或者干脆挑明这些话题，这样你就知道谁才是真正值得交往的朋友啦，哈哈
YumijiEntel Absolutely yes. But I suppose some people prefer to live in ignorance and comfort themselves with the illusions of "having friends" who are not really their friends but rather acquaintances lol
当然如此。不过我想有些人宁愿活在无知中，用"拥有朋友"的幻觉自欺欺人——其实那些人根本算不得真朋友，顶多算是熟人罢了，笑
YTY2003 Unfortunately, the average person has no power to change many of the "certain topics"
不幸的是，普通人对许多"特定话题"无能为力
WonderfulSetting2911 I mean sounds like you are being borderline racist towards Chinese lol
听起来你对中国人的态度已经有点种族主义的边界了，呵呵
Technorasta Just because of the poor behavior of a handful of visitors, you insulted them and the whole population of Chinese. What percentage of Chinese visitors conduct themselves appropriately? The number far outweighs the number who act poorly. They were probably disappointed by your stupidity more than anything.
仅仅因为少数游客的不当行为，你就侮辱了他们和全体中国人。中国游客中举止得体的比例是多少？这个数字远远超过行为不当者。他们可能最失望的是你的愚蠢。
Forvirret-kal I think your beliefs are valid and fair, but to bring it up specifically to your Chinese friends and to tell them how you wish Koreans in general were more strict with Chinese tourists, that kinda seems like you were looking for a heated debate to begin with. I don’t sympathize with you about this, because imagine if the same thing was said about Korean tourists in another country? Would you just “agree” that your country has bad tourist behavior? Or would you think that not all Korean tourists are bad, why should they increase law punishment for Koreans overseas specifically? It’s honestly a weird thing to bring up with your friends to begin with.
我认为你的观点有其合理性，但特意向中国朋友提及此事，还表示希望韩国整体能对华裔游客采取更严格措施——这看起来你从一开始就是奔着激烈辩论去的。我并不认同你这种做法，试想若有人对韩国游客在其他国家的行为发表类似言论？你会轻易"认同"自己国家的游客素质差吗？还是认为不能以偏概全，凭什么专程加重针对海外韩侨的法律惩戒？说实话，和友人讨论这种话题本身就很奇怪。
tenchichrono These individuals who behave badly should be prosecuted but they don't represent all 1.4B people in China. You make it seem like all Chinese are taking a shit on the ground in South Korea, which is why I can see your friends didn't want anything else to do with you.
个别行为失当者理应受到法律追究，但他们不代表中国 14 亿人民的整体形象。你的表述方式近乎暗示所有中国人都在韩国当街便溺，这正是你朋友决定与你断绝往来的原因。
Common_Log5107 I've had a similar thing, I think its a cultural thing in China that some people here see you criticising others as criticising them all, obviously not everyone thinks like that. I know what its like to feel ashamed of how people from my country behave abroad (scotland/uk) but there are people who defend that too so it's not a China only issue, but they seem to take it more to heart. Good on you for standing up for yourself however! it's sad but you don't really want friends like that in the long run tbh
我也遇到过类似情况，我觉得这算是一种中国特有的文化现象——有些人会把你对个别中国人的批评误解为对整个群体的指责。当然并非所有人都这样想。我完全理解那种因同胞在海外的不当行为而感到羞愧的心情（我来自苏格兰/英国），我们国家也有人会为此辩解，所以这不是中国独有的问题。但中国人似乎对此更为敏感。不过你坚持立场的做法很棒！虽然遗憾，但从长远来看，确实没必要和这种朋友继续交往。
benni33 I can second this. My gf had a long way distinguishing between herself and other people of China.
我深有同感。我女友花了很长时间才学会把个人和其他中国人区分看待。
I am not sure you want to be „friends“ with those kind of people. In some way they are very influenced by their childhood beeing „proud (insert nationality here)“. The thing Kanther are not aware of this influence. With some people it is worth making the travel. With others not.
我不确定你是否应该和这类人做"朋友"。某种程度上他们都深受童年"争做（某国）骄傲"教育的影响，却意识不到这种潜移默化。有些人值得你费心化解分歧，有些人则不然。
kamace11 I have a European friend who gets a little too aggro on the "America and Americans suck" stuff sometimes. A bit of complaining is fine but eventually it becomes tiresome and just an excuse for them to hate on a group of people with impunity. Ideally you weren't doing that?
我有个欧洲朋友，有时在"美国和美国人糟透了"这种话题上会有点过激。偶尔抱怨一下没问题，但总这样就会让人厌烦，变成他肆无忌惮攻击特定人群的借口。你应该不是这样吧？
In general, I don't really complain about random Chinese tourists, even if they've done shitty stuff, to my Chinese friends bc that is not them and I don't expect them to somehow control all their countrymen nor do I need them to feel shame over their behavior, since idiots are common no matter the country (there are just more Americans... And more Chinese... Traveling than say, Spaniards). I have been embarrassed and upset at Americans while traveling abroad who have behaved shittily, and when something really bad happens I do get angry about it and will speak up. But I get highly annoyed when someone brings up shitty American tourists at me as if I, just because I am American, have some sort of ability to stop these people or answer for their shitty behavior. I don't and I can't. Maybe your friends felt similarly?
一般情况下，我很少向我的中国朋友抱怨随机遇到的中国游客的糟糕行为，因为这些行为与他们无关。我不认为他们有义务管控所有同胞，也不要求他们为此感到羞愧——毕竟每个国家都有素质欠佳的人（只是美国人和中国人出境旅游的基数更大...比方说比西班牙人多得多）。在国外旅行时，我也曾为行为粗鲁的美国人感到难堪和恼火，若遇到特别恶劣的情况也会直接发声抗议。但当有人指着鼻子拿美国游客的劣行质问我，仿佛仅仅因为我是美国人就该为这些人的行为负责或出手制止时，我会非常反感——事实上我既没有这种义务也做不到。或许你的朋友们也有类似的感受？
mg61456 i withessed this in switzerland as a swiss and i loved to see it, that you guys even not home keeping each other in check!
在瑞士亲眼目睹这一幕时，作为一个瑞士人我深受触动，即使远离故土你们依然互相督促！
dmnysxde This story is quite boring. I don't think the friendship between you is very deep, or rather, you don't truly regard each other as friends. At best, you're just classmates/acquaintances.
这段故事相当无聊。我感觉你们之间的友谊并不深厚，或者说你们其实并没有真正把对方当作朋友看待。顶多只能算是同学/熟人关系。
If you really considered your Chinese classmates as friends, you wouldn't take the initiative to pick quarrels with them over these racist news events that have nothing to do with them.
如果你真的把中国同学当作朋友，就不会主动因为这些与他们无关的种族歧视新闻事件去找他们吵架。
What kind of answer are you trying to get by bringing up such sensitive racist topics in front of them?
你在他们面前提出如此敏感的种族话题，究竟想获得怎样的回答？
Do you want them to humiliate their own compatriots with you to satisfy your emotional needs?
难道你是想让他们和你一起羞辱自己的同胞，来满足你的情绪需求吗？
Since they are your friends, you must know their personalities and qualities. Do they have the slightest connection with the bad tourists in the news?
既然他们是你的朋友，你一定了解他们的性格和品行。他们和新闻里那些不良游客有半点关联吗？
Why would your classmates refute you in an aggressive tone? Isn't it because they feel inexplicably offended?
为什么你的同学会用攻击性语气反驳你？难道不是因为他们感到莫名被冒犯了吗？
Take a good look again at how much racism is in what you said.
好好看看你说的话里包含多少种族主义成分。
If you let such trivial racist news affect your thoughts and life, even the deepest friendship will eventually be exhausted.
如果你让这种充满种族主义的琐碎新闻影响你的思想和生活，再深厚的友谊最终也会消耗殆尽。
jniij This ^ I tried to find the original sources of the news incidents the OP mentioned. And the news articles read like celebrity gossip columns. The tourists were “suspected” to be Chinese. What journalistic standards is this?!? So the writer didn’t confirm they are Chinese and just claimed that they were. You really have to think is there a racist motive behind these articles. It’s really easy to find one incident to write about. Wake me up when the % is high. How many Chinese tourists are there in Korea and how many of them defecated in the palace before? One? Oh burn them at the stake /s
这一点我也试过查找原帖提到的新闻事件源头。那些报道读起来跟明星八卦小报似的——游客只是"疑似"中国人。这算哪门子新闻专业标准?!作者根本就没核实身份就妄下断言。你真得想想这些文章背后是否有种族歧视动机。随手抓个例来写实在太容易了。等比例高到值得关注时再叫醒我吧。中国游客在韩国有多少？以往在宫殿里大小便的有几个？就一个？哦那得赶紧绑上火刑柱烧死啊/讽刺
People are really susceptible to propaganda “news” when they are bigoted. One way to know is ask yourself what is the whole picture- what % of the people are actually thinking this way or acting this way. What % of Chinese do you think are claiming that kimchi is Chinese? Or that hanbok is Chinese? Oh one person made a video about it so all Chinese are like that. Check yourself and ask yourself if you are the one that is holding the wrong views.
偏见使人极其容易受到"新闻"宣传的影响。检验方法之一就是自问全局如何——实际持这种想法或行为的人占多大比例？你认为有多少中国人声称泡菜属于中国？或认为韩服源自中国？难道因为有人发了段视频就等于所有中国人都这样想？该反省的或许是你自己，究竟是谁持有错误观点。
Remote_Volume_3609 Koreans generally don't realise that they occupy very little of Chinese people's times so they see these huge news stories and think it's about as prominent as the breakout of World War 2 whereas the average Chinese person probably hasn't even heard of the "controversies." As you found out when you dug into it, they're almost all garbage and created by fueling pretend controversy.
韩国人大都没意识到他们在中国人生活中占极小的比重，所以看到这些铺天盖地的新闻时，还以为如同二战爆发般举世瞩目，而普通中国人可能压根没听说过这些"争议"。当你深入调查就会发现，这些争议几乎全是人为煽动的虚假议题。
Take the Hanbok one, for starters: China has an ethnic Korean population. Basically, the whole "hanbok is claimed to be Chinese" comes from the fact that the Hanbok was worn in the Beijing Olympics. This is because, for anybody familiar with China, everyone knows China has a longstanding ethnic Korean population. It's the 13th largest ethnic minority group in China (which works out to be a few million because China is dominated by the Han ethnicity), so yes in the representation of ethnic groups of China, there was Hanbok and Korean culture represented.
以韩服争议为例：中国本身就有朝鲜族存在。所谓"韩服被宣称源自中国"的说法，根本源于北京奥运会上出现了韩服元素。但凡了解中国国情的人都知道，朝鲜族是中国的法定少数民族之一。作为中国第十三大少数民族（由于汉族占主体，这些少数民族也有数百万之众），在展现中国多民族文化时，韩服与朝鲜族文化自然会被纳入国家形象展示范畴。
And of course the Chinatown crime rates one is just pure racism, no point in even getting into that one (though OP should look at what Koreatowns in Japan or the US look like. Hint hint, they don't have great reputations either. The fact that OP thinks that's a cause to bring up tells me all I need to know about how OP actually approaches these issues).
当然唐人街犯罪率这种说法纯属种族歧视，根本没讨论的必要（不过发帖者该去看看日本或美国的韩人社区什么样。提醒一下，那些地方的名声也好不到哪去。光看发帖者觉得这事也值得拿出来说，就足够让我明白他处理这类问题时的立场了）。
It is a case of the steps of an elephant feel like an earthquake to a mouse. A few Chinese people, a neglible portion, constitutes an overwhelming amount for a country the size of Korea.
这就像大象踏步对老鼠而言犹如地震。几个中国人，虽然微不足道，但对于韩国这样体量的国家来说却构成了压倒性的存在。
Plussydestroyer Do you believe that Korea should apply stricter rules to your friends too then because of their background?
那么你是否认为韩国也应该因为你朋友的背景而对他们实施更严格的规则？
That's enough for me to end a friendship. I don't want to waste my time to maintain a friendship if people have concerns over where I came from.
这足以让我结束一段友谊。如果人们在意我的出身，我不想浪费时间维持这样的友谊。
作为一个中国人，我也很反感听说中国人在国外惹麻烦的新闻。不尊重他人的人不值得我尊重。
Please punish them to the full extent of your law. Show them consequence of action.
请按照你们的法律严惩他们。让他们明白行为的后果。
iHate_RonEbens Same. I also Wish China dose the same to foreigners causing trouble in China.
我也一样。希望中国对在中国惹事的外国人也采取同样措施。
Noonecanfindmenow I hate when people are not able to admit fault. Like, everyone has issues, just because you admit to them doesn't mean you think you're inferior and that other people are perfect. I find this problem with almost every non western person I talk to actually.
我讨厌死不认错的人。每个人都有缺点，承认缺点并不意味着你觉得低人一等，也不代表别人就完美无缺。说实话，几乎所有我交谈过的非西方人都有这个问题。
But I do think one big thing about Chinese specifically, is how in the west atleast every "gross" or inferior thing is assumed to be Chinese, while anything cute or cool is assumed to be Korean or Japanese. It's a defense mechanism for sure. And just a topic overall best to be avoided.
但我认为中国人的一个显著特点是，至少在西方，所有"恶心"或低劣的东西都被默认是中国产的，而任何可爱酷炫的东西都被当作韩国或日本的。这当然是一种防御机制。这种话题最好完全避开。
Like what do you want your Chinese friend to say? "yes they shouldn't shit in public"? Like.... Obviously, it goes without saying. Why should that even come out of their mouth.
不然你想让你中国朋友说什么？"没错他们不该当街拉屎"？拜托....这根本不用说。凭什么要人家亲口承认这种事。
Illustrious-Okra-524 His friends didn’t do anything wrong why do they have to apologize for some other person?
他的朋友们又没做错什么，干嘛要为别人道歉？
calaeno0824 They don't have to apologize for other people, they just have to agree the things other did were wrong. Which is the crazy part because instead they got defensive.
他们不需要替他人道歉，只需承认那些行为确实不当即可。但离谱的是他们反而开始防卫性反击。
velvethowl What OP wants is assurance from his friends that such ugly behavior is not normalized or acceptable in China but instead receives a defence of such ugly acts. I guess such behavior is indeed normalized and defensible by the Chinese. Speaking as a Chinese.
发帖人所期待的，是朋友们能表态"这类丑陋行为在中国并非常态也无法接受"，但得到的却是对这种恶劣行径的辩护。作为一个中国人，我不得不承认这种行为确实已被规范化，并且在某些同胞眼中是值得捍卫的。
Misogynist-youth When my brother didn't put away his dishes, and my mom complained to me for the 11th time, I'll also react by saying "what's the point of telling me this?!"
我哥没收拾餐具时，我妈第 11 次跑来向我抱怨，我也会脱口而出"跟我说这个有什么用？！"
Should I bring up an idol scandal or suicide to a Korean friend everytime I come across one such news/rumor on social media?
难道我每次在社交媒体上看到韩国偶像的丑闻或自杀新闻/谣言，都要跑去跟韩国朋友讨论吗？
Remote_Volume_3609 The better question I have for OP is, what was the response they wanted from their "friends?" Did they want them to apologise for what some random tourists did? What exactly did OP want with bringing up "surging crime rates in Chinatowns in Korea" (OP, go look at Koreatowns and see what the Koreatowns of Japan are known for lol. Or see what Koreatown in LA is known for (google LA 1992 to get a quick hint)).
我想问楼主一个更切题的问题：你原本期待这些"朋友"给出什么回应？是想让他们为某些陌生游客的行为道歉吗？楼主提到"韩国唐人街犯罪率激增"到底想达成什么目的？（楼主不妨去看看日本的韩国城以什么闻名，或者查查洛杉矶韩国城的"光辉历史"——谷歌搜索"洛杉矶 1992"就能 get 到提示了）。
nagidon What do those incidents have to do with your friends? Were they personally responsible? Or did you feel like you needed to point it out simply because of the nationality connection?
这些事件和你朋友有什么关系？是他们个人的责任吗？还是你觉得仅仅因为国籍关联就必须指出来？
Illustrious-Okra-524 I don’t really understand why you have to make it about all Chinese people instead of the specific badly behaving ones.
我不太明白为什么你要上升成全体中国人，而不是针对那些具体行为不当的人。
You’re telling us you told your “friends” that you hope your home government makes it harder for them to visit your country, WHILE IN THEIR country, and you’re surprised they felt negatively about that?
你当着在人家国家做客时，告诉自己的"朋友"说你希望自己国家的政府加大对他们的入境限制——现在却惊讶他们对此有负面情绪？
pantotheface888 You should do some self-reflection about how you communicated your points because it's not what you say but rather how you say it. Most of communication is non-verbal, so whatever vibe you were giving was what offended them most likely.
你应该反思一下自己表达观点的方式，因为问题不在于说了什么，而在于怎么说。大部分沟通都是非语言的，所以你当时散发的氛围很可能才是冒犯他们的关键。
Or they were just dicks.
要不就是他们本来就不讲道理。
Or it's a combination of both your fault and theirs. Who knows? I wasn't there.
或许你们双方都有错。谁知道呢？我又不在场。
Remote_Volume_3609 Right? Someone else said it, but you can agree with a point but still dislike how it was brought up. For example, I could say something like "the only reason South Korea exists is because the US bailed it out and China could nuke it out of existence if it wanted to."
对吧？别人提的观点你可以认同，但依然可以不喜欢对方表达的方式。比如说，我来句"韩国能存在全靠美国救命，中国要愿意的话一颗核弹就能灭了它"。
This is a factual statement. It's also? Rude, awful and stupid to say. What's the point of me saying it to my Korean friends? What is the intended outcome or expectation?
这话是事实。但同时呢？说这种话既粗鲁又恶毒还愚蠢。我对韩国朋友说这种话图什么？到底想达成什么效果或期待？
All I can say is, judging by what OP said (surging crime rates in Chinatown in Korea???) I live in Los Angeles and I could totally tell random Koreans "Koreatown in Los Angeles is very dangerous, there's a huge surging crime rate there and I just could never imagine living there." I'm not sure exactly what I'd be accomplishing there?
我只能说，根据原贴描述（韩国唐人街犯罪率激增？？？）我住在洛杉矶，完全可以随便找个韩国人说"洛杉矶的韩国城非常危险，那边犯罪率飙升得厉害，我根本无法想象住在那儿。" 但我不确定这种言论到底能达成什么目的？
nahuhnot4me Right. Op is picking a fight that should never have been a fight and I bet you that says more about a destructive habit he picked up as a kid and it’s affecting his adult life.
确实。/OP 挑起了一场本不该存在的争执，我敢打赌这更反映出他儿时养成的破坏性习性，如今正在影响他的成年生活。
Sounds like Op could really benefit from a therapist. Good friends are able to support and the ones that are fair weather.
听起来楼主真的需要心理咨询师的帮助。真正的朋友应该能够相互支持，而不是只能同享乐。
royalblue9999 You lost your friendships because you wanted to argue for Korea and they wanted to argue for China. So nationalism vs nationalism. Congratulations, you all won.
你们失去了友谊，因为你执意为韩国争辩而他们执意为中国辩护。这是民族主义对上了民族主义。恭喜，你们都赢了。
Forsaken_Nature_7943 I'm sorry for you. Sometimes we should avoid certain topics that you have no power to change.
很遗憾你遇到这种情况。对某些无力改变的话题，我们有时应该避免讨论。
nelson931214 or address those topics so you can see who are the ones you should actually be friends with lol
或者干脆挑明这些话题，这样你就知道谁才是真正值得交往的朋友啦，哈哈
YumijiEntel Absolutely yes. But I suppose some people prefer to live in ignorance and comfort themselves with the illusions of "having friends" who are not really their friends but rather acquaintances lol
当然如此。不过我想有些人宁愿活在无知中，用"拥有朋友"的幻觉自欺欺人——其实那些人根本算不得真朋友，顶多算是熟人罢了，笑
YTY2003 Unfortunately, the average person has no power to change many of the "certain topics"
不幸的是，普通人对许多"特定话题"无能为力
WonderfulSetting2911 I mean sounds like you are being borderline racist towards Chinese lol
听起来你对中国人的态度已经有点种族主义的边界了，呵呵
Technorasta Just because of the poor behavior of a handful of visitors, you insulted them and the whole population of Chinese. What percentage of Chinese visitors conduct themselves appropriately? The number far outweighs the number who act poorly. They were probably disappointed by your stupidity more than anything.
仅仅因为少数游客的不当行为，你就侮辱了他们和全体中国人。中国游客中举止得体的比例是多少？这个数字远远超过行为不当者。他们可能最失望的是你的愚蠢。
Forvirret-kal I think your beliefs are valid and fair, but to bring it up specifically to your Chinese friends and to tell them how you wish Koreans in general were more strict with Chinese tourists, that kinda seems like you were looking for a heated debate to begin with. I don’t sympathize with you about this, because imagine if the same thing was said about Korean tourists in another country? Would you just “agree” that your country has bad tourist behavior? Or would you think that not all Korean tourists are bad, why should they increase law punishment for Koreans overseas specifically? It’s honestly a weird thing to bring up with your friends to begin with.
我认为你的观点有其合理性，但特意向中国朋友提及此事，还表示希望韩国整体能对华裔游客采取更严格措施——这看起来你从一开始就是奔着激烈辩论去的。我并不认同你这种做法，试想若有人对韩国游客在其他国家的行为发表类似言论？你会轻易"认同"自己国家的游客素质差吗？还是认为不能以偏概全，凭什么专程加重针对海外韩侨的法律惩戒？说实话，和友人讨论这种话题本身就很奇怪。
tenchichrono These individuals who behave badly should be prosecuted but they don't represent all 1.4B people in China. You make it seem like all Chinese are taking a shit on the ground in South Korea, which is why I can see your friends didn't want anything else to do with you.
个别行为失当者理应受到法律追究，但他们不代表中国 14 亿人民的整体形象。你的表述方式近乎暗示所有中国人都在韩国当街便溺，这正是你朋友决定与你断绝往来的原因。
Common_Log5107 I've had a similar thing, I think its a cultural thing in China that some people here see you criticising others as criticising them all, obviously not everyone thinks like that. I know what its like to feel ashamed of how people from my country behave abroad (scotland/uk) but there are people who defend that too so it's not a China only issue, but they seem to take it more to heart. Good on you for standing up for yourself however! it's sad but you don't really want friends like that in the long run tbh
我也遇到过类似情况，我觉得这算是一种中国特有的文化现象——有些人会把你对个别中国人的批评误解为对整个群体的指责。当然并非所有人都这样想。我完全理解那种因同胞在海外的不当行为而感到羞愧的心情（我来自苏格兰/英国），我们国家也有人会为此辩解，所以这不是中国独有的问题。但中国人似乎对此更为敏感。不过你坚持立场的做法很棒！虽然遗憾，但从长远来看，确实没必要和这种朋友继续交往。
benni33 I can second this. My gf had a long way distinguishing between herself and other people of China.
我深有同感。我女友花了很长时间才学会把个人和其他中国人区分看待。
I am not sure you want to be „friends“ with those kind of people. In some way they are very influenced by their childhood beeing „proud (insert nationality here)“. The thing Kanther are not aware of this influence. With some people it is worth making the travel. With others not.
我不确定你是否应该和这类人做"朋友"。某种程度上他们都深受童年"争做（某国）骄傲"教育的影响，却意识不到这种潜移默化。有些人值得你费心化解分歧，有些人则不然。
kamace11 I have a European friend who gets a little too aggro on the "America and Americans suck" stuff sometimes. A bit of complaining is fine but eventually it becomes tiresome and just an excuse for them to hate on a group of people with impunity. Ideally you weren't doing that?
我有个欧洲朋友，有时在"美国和美国人糟透了"这种话题上会有点过激。偶尔抱怨一下没问题，但总这样就会让人厌烦，变成他肆无忌惮攻击特定人群的借口。你应该不是这样吧？
In general, I don't really complain about random Chinese tourists, even if they've done shitty stuff, to my Chinese friends bc that is not them and I don't expect them to somehow control all their countrymen nor do I need them to feel shame over their behavior, since idiots are common no matter the country (there are just more Americans... And more Chinese... Traveling than say, Spaniards). I have been embarrassed and upset at Americans while traveling abroad who have behaved shittily, and when something really bad happens I do get angry about it and will speak up. But I get highly annoyed when someone brings up shitty American tourists at me as if I, just because I am American, have some sort of ability to stop these people or answer for their shitty behavior. I don't and I can't. Maybe your friends felt similarly?
一般情况下，我很少向我的中国朋友抱怨随机遇到的中国游客的糟糕行为，因为这些行为与他们无关。我不认为他们有义务管控所有同胞，也不要求他们为此感到羞愧——毕竟每个国家都有素质欠佳的人（只是美国人和中国人出境旅游的基数更大...比方说比西班牙人多得多）。在国外旅行时，我也曾为行为粗鲁的美国人感到难堪和恼火，若遇到特别恶劣的情况也会直接发声抗议。但当有人指着鼻子拿美国游客的劣行质问我，仿佛仅仅因为我是美国人就该为这些人的行为负责或出手制止时，我会非常反感——事实上我既没有这种义务也做不到。或许你的朋友们也有类似的感受？
mg61456 i withessed this in switzerland as a swiss and i loved to see it, that you guys even not home keeping each other in check!
在瑞士亲眼目睹这一幕时，作为一个瑞士人我深受触动，即使远离故土你们依然互相督促！
dmnysxde This story is quite boring. I don't think the friendship between you is very deep, or rather, you don't truly regard each other as friends. At best, you're just classmates/acquaintances.
这段故事相当无聊。我感觉你们之间的友谊并不深厚，或者说你们其实并没有真正把对方当作朋友看待。顶多只能算是同学/熟人关系。
If you really considered your Chinese classmates as friends, you wouldn't take the initiative to pick quarrels with them over these racist news events that have nothing to do with them.
如果你真的把中国同学当作朋友，就不会主动因为这些与他们无关的种族歧视新闻事件去找他们吵架。
What kind of answer are you trying to get by bringing up such sensitive racist topics in front of them?
你在他们面前提出如此敏感的种族话题，究竟想获得怎样的回答？
Do you want them to humiliate their own compatriots with you to satisfy your emotional needs?
难道你是想让他们和你一起羞辱自己的同胞，来满足你的情绪需求吗？
Since they are your friends, you must know their personalities and qualities. Do they have the slightest connection with the bad tourists in the news?
既然他们是你的朋友，你一定了解他们的性格和品行。他们和新闻里那些不良游客有半点关联吗？
Why would your classmates refute you in an aggressive tone? Isn't it because they feel inexplicably offended?
为什么你的同学会用攻击性语气反驳你？难道不是因为他们感到莫名被冒犯了吗？
Take a good look again at how much racism is in what you said.
好好看看你说的话里包含多少种族主义成分。
If you let such trivial racist news affect your thoughts and life, even the deepest friendship will eventually be exhausted.
如果你让这种充满种族主义的琐碎新闻影响你的思想和生活，再深厚的友谊最终也会消耗殆尽。
jniij This ^ I tried to find the original sources of the news incidents the OP mentioned. And the news articles read like celebrity gossip columns. The tourists were “suspected” to be Chinese. What journalistic standards is this?!? So the writer didn’t confirm they are Chinese and just claimed that they were. You really have to think is there a racist motive behind these articles. It’s really easy to find one incident to write about. Wake me up when the % is high. How many Chinese tourists are there in Korea and how many of them defecated in the palace before? One? Oh burn them at the stake /s
这一点我也试过查找原帖提到的新闻事件源头。那些报道读起来跟明星八卦小报似的——游客只是"疑似"中国人。这算哪门子新闻专业标准?!作者根本就没核实身份就妄下断言。你真得想想这些文章背后是否有种族歧视动机。随手抓个例来写实在太容易了。等比例高到值得关注时再叫醒我吧。中国游客在韩国有多少？以往在宫殿里大小便的有几个？就一个？哦那得赶紧绑上火刑柱烧死啊/讽刺
People are really susceptible to propaganda “news” when they are bigoted. One way to know is ask yourself what is the whole picture- what % of the people are actually thinking this way or acting this way. What % of Chinese do you think are claiming that kimchi is Chinese? Or that hanbok is Chinese? Oh one person made a video about it so all Chinese are like that. Check yourself and ask yourself if you are the one that is holding the wrong views.
偏见使人极其容易受到"新闻"宣传的影响。检验方法之一就是自问全局如何——实际持这种想法或行为的人占多大比例？你认为有多少中国人声称泡菜属于中国？或认为韩服源自中国？难道因为有人发了段视频就等于所有中国人都这样想？该反省的或许是你自己，究竟是谁持有错误观点。
Remote_Volume_3609 Koreans generally don't realise that they occupy very little of Chinese people's times so they see these huge news stories and think it's about as prominent as the breakout of World War 2 whereas the average Chinese person probably hasn't even heard of the "controversies." As you found out when you dug into it, they're almost all garbage and created by fueling pretend controversy.
韩国人大都没意识到他们在中国人生活中占极小的比重，所以看到这些铺天盖地的新闻时，还以为如同二战爆发般举世瞩目，而普通中国人可能压根没听说过这些"争议"。当你深入调查就会发现，这些争议几乎全是人为煽动的虚假议题。
Take the Hanbok one, for starters: China has an ethnic Korean population. Basically, the whole "hanbok is claimed to be Chinese" comes from the fact that the Hanbok was worn in the Beijing Olympics. This is because, for anybody familiar with China, everyone knows China has a longstanding ethnic Korean population. It's the 13th largest ethnic minority group in China (which works out to be a few million because China is dominated by the Han ethnicity), so yes in the representation of ethnic groups of China, there was Hanbok and Korean culture represented.
以韩服争议为例：中国本身就有朝鲜族存在。所谓"韩服被宣称源自中国"的说法，根本源于北京奥运会上出现了韩服元素。但凡了解中国国情的人都知道，朝鲜族是中国的法定少数民族之一。作为中国第十三大少数民族（由于汉族占主体，这些少数民族也有数百万之众），在展现中国多民族文化时，韩服与朝鲜族文化自然会被纳入国家形象展示范畴。
And of course the Chinatown crime rates one is just pure racism, no point in even getting into that one (though OP should look at what Koreatowns in Japan or the US look like. Hint hint, they don't have great reputations either. The fact that OP thinks that's a cause to bring up tells me all I need to know about how OP actually approaches these issues).
当然唐人街犯罪率这种说法纯属种族歧视，根本没讨论的必要（不过发帖者该去看看日本或美国的韩人社区什么样。提醒一下，那些地方的名声也好不到哪去。光看发帖者觉得这事也值得拿出来说，就足够让我明白他处理这类问题时的立场了）。
It is a case of the steps of an elephant feel like an earthquake to a mouse. A few Chinese people, a neglible portion, constitutes an overwhelming amount for a country the size of Korea.
这就像大象踏步对老鼠而言犹如地震。几个中国人，虽然微不足道，但对于韩国这样体量的国家来说却构成了压倒性的存在。
Plussydestroyer Do you believe that Korea should apply stricter rules to your friends too then because of their background?
那么你是否认为韩国也应该因为你朋友的背景而对他们实施更严格的规则？
That's enough for me to end a friendship. I don't want to waste my time to maintain a friendship if people have concerns over where I came from.
这足以让我结束一段友谊。如果人们在意我的出身，我不想浪费时间维持这样的友谊。
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