你怎么看待在英国越来越多的中国全新电动汽车？你会考虑买一辆吗？评论区网民大赞中国电动车
正文翻译
正文：
（捷途）
I’ve been noticing a lot more new Chinese EV brands popping up recently, such as MG, JAECOO / Omoda, BYD, Xpeng etc.
I've also noticed the rise of Chinese EVs in London like the New TfL buses, The new London Taxis etc
Just wondering what people actually think about them? Would you consider buying one, or do you still prefer the more established brands like Tesla, VW etc?
If you own one, what do you think of it? Are you happy with your decision?
btw Please try not to talk about PoIitics, I think its forbidden on this sub.
我最近注意到中国新能源汽车品牌冒出来得越来越多了，比如名爵（MG）、捷途（JAECOO）/ 欧萌达（Omoda）、比亚迪（BYD）、小鹏（Xpeng）等等。
我还发现中国电动车在伦敦越来越常见，像是伦敦交通局的新公交车、新款伦敦出租车之类的。
就是想问问大家真实看法：你会考虑买一辆吗？还是依旧更青睐特斯拉、大众这些更老牌的车企？
如果你已经买了，用下来感觉怎么样？后悔吗，还是觉得买对了？
对了，尽量别聊政治，我记得这个子版块是禁止谈政治的
（捷途）I’ve been noticing a lot more new Chinese EV brands popping up recently, such as MG, JAECOO / Omoda, BYD, Xpeng etc.
I've also noticed the rise of Chinese EVs in London like the New TfL buses, The new London Taxis etc
Just wondering what people actually think about them? Would you consider buying one, or do you still prefer the more established brands like Tesla, VW etc?
If you own one, what do you think of it? Are you happy with your decision?
btw Please try not to talk about PoIitics, I think its forbidden on this sub.
我最近注意到中国新能源汽车品牌冒出来得越来越多了，比如名爵（MG）、捷途（JAECOO）/ 欧萌达（Omoda）、比亚迪（BYD）、小鹏（Xpeng）等等。
我还发现中国电动车在伦敦越来越常见，像是伦敦交通局的新公交车、新款伦敦出租车之类的。
就是想问问大家真实看法：你会考虑买一辆吗？还是依旧更青睐特斯拉、大众这些更老牌的车企？
如果你已经买了，用下来感觉怎么样？后悔吗，还是觉得买对了？
对了，尽量别聊政治，我记得这个子版块是禁止谈政治的
评论翻译
评论：
Carrente
I'd buy literally anything before a Tesla
我就算买别的任何车，也绝对不买特斯拉。
laservole
原始发帖人
Fairs crazy what one man can do to a business
一个人能把一家企业搞成这样，也真是离谱。（指的是马斯克）
MorningToast
Tesla is less of a business and more of a stock market experiment. Over hyped shit.
特斯拉与其说是一家企业，不如说是一场股市实验。纯属过度炒作的垃圾。
vdawg01
Balenciaga of car market
汽车界的巴黎世家
laservole
原始发帖人
Pretty good anecdote to be fair, cant argue with that!
说真的，这例子举得很生动，没毛病！
TimGessner
I don't have any brand loyalty and I think Musk is a d*ck, but I bought a M3 performance in 2019 when there was literally nothing close to it on the market. I've done 80k miles in it, it's never been out of sport mode (and I've got a heavy right foot,) I've not been bothered about careful charging etc. I often use it more like a van, filling it with toolboxes, and I have a roof rack on it that I've carried ladders, timber and scaffolding on. In the 7 years I've owned it, the only issue was a drivers seat occupancy sensor which was changed under warranty.. and that's it. Nothing in 7 years. The original brake pads still have about 7mm on them. It's never been serviced. And as a bonus I had free charging at work for the first 5 years. Anecdotal I know, but I don't know what more you could expect from a vehicle? Runs flawlessly for 7+ years, does 0-60 in 3 seconds, practical, and totally reliable. Over-hyped shit my arse!
我对品牌没什么忠诚度，而且我也觉得马斯克是个混蛋，但我2019年买了一辆Model3高性能版，当时市面上真没什么车能跟它比。我已经开了8万英里，一直挂着运动模式开（我的脚也比较重），从来没刻意讲究过怎么充电之类的。我经常把它当货车用，塞满工具箱，还装了车顶架，拉过梯子、木料、脚手架。开了7年，唯一出过的问题就是驾驶位座椅感应传感器，在保修期内换了…… 仅此而已。7年啥毛病没有。原厂刹车片还剩大概7毫米。从来没做过保养。还有个福利：前5年在公司充电免费。
我知道这只是我个人的使用经历，但一辆车你还能要求更多呢？7年多开下来完美无瑕，零百加速3秒，实用，还特别可靠。说它是过度炒作的垃圾？扯蛋吧！
Jazzlike-Compote4463
And yet I would still never buy one because of the absolute bell-end that owns the company.
可我还是绝对不会再买，就因为这家公司的老板是个彻头彻尾的混蛋
BraveLordWilloughby
And these major Chinese CCP-backed companies are run by absolute angels...
而这些有中G背景的大型中国企业，管理层全都是纯洁的天使……
fezzuk
Don't have to buy one of those either.
我也不一定非要买那些。
laservole
原始发帖人
if u dont like them because of the owner, i completely understand, but the actual vehicles themselves are pretty good, ive been in a few including one from 2014 and its unbelieable how far ahead it was for its time. nothing was close. they are starting to catch up now though.
another USP they have is their supercharger network which is a major advantage over the spotty unreliable public ones their rivals have
如果你不喜欢它们是因为老板的原因，我完全理解，但车本身确实挺好的。我坐过几辆，包括一辆2014年的车，它在当时领先的程度简直难以置信，根本没有能与之相比的。不过现在它们（竞争对手）已经开始赶上来了。它们的另一个独特卖点是超级充电网络，比起竞争对手那些零星且不可靠的公共充电桩，这确实是一个巨大的优势。
Winter-Swimmer-3000
Shame about the electronic door handles though.
不过那电子门把手是真的拉胯
MorningToast
What was far ahead for it's time? Like, what exactly?
The idea that traditional manufacturers are playing catch up at this point is also silly, what are they still behind on exactly? I've driven several brands of electric vehicles (company cars) and currently drive a bmw i4, it's an actual car, solid, dependable, a pleasure to drive. My Tesla was like a computer with wheels., it felt cheap and plastic, I couldn't wait to get out of it.
它当年到底超前在哪了？具体来说，是什么地方？
现在还说传统车企在追赶，这也很离谱 —— 它们到底还落后在哪？我开过好几个品牌的电动车（都是公司配车），现在开的是宝马i4。它是一辆正经的车，扎实、可靠、开着舒服。我的特斯拉就像一台装了轮子的电脑，感觉廉价、全是塑料感，我巴不得赶紧下车。
EntirelyRandom1590
Tesla built a car and a charging network that was integrated from the beginning (let's not forget that in Europe it was competing against the Chamedo Leaf and AC Zoe initially).
And whilst it's never achieved full self driving, there's still many companies that can't do a decent crack at auto cruise on motorway (MG).
Tesla also have better overall packaging (frunk, interior space, deep boots), better efficiency and typically better charge curves.
They also were one of the first to bring LFP batteries to the wider market, which is a good improvement on cobalt -chem.
If you want to see bad implementation, see Stellantis, early ID cars, Audi/Porsche drivetrains, iPace unreliability etc etc
Tesla cars aren't perfect, but they have moved the game on for electric vehicles. I prefer Hyundai/Kia products myself.
特斯拉从一开始就构建了汽车与充电网络一体化的系统（别忘了，在欧洲，它最初可是与采用CHAdeMO标准的日产聆风以及AC充电的雷诺Zoe在竞争）。（译者注：首先，原文中Chamedo估计是打错了，应该是CHAdeMO，日本制定的汽车快充标准。日产聆风和雷诺Zoe都是在2010年左右推出的电动车，算是电动车的先驱车型）
虽然它一直没能实现完全自动驾驶，但仍有很多公司连高速公路上的自动巡航都做不好（比如名爵）。
特斯拉在整体封装布局（前备箱、内部空间、深后备箱）、能效以及充电曲线方面也通常做得更好。
他们也是首批将磷酸铁锂电池推向更广阔市场的公司之一，这对钴基化学电池来说是一项不错的改进。
如果你想看看糟糕的实现，看看Stellantis、早期的ID系列车型、奥迪/保时捷的动力系统、捷豹iPace的可靠性问题等等就知道了。（译者注：Stellantis是标致雪铁龙与菲亚特克莱斯勒于2021年1月16日通过平等合并成立的跨国汽车制造商）
特斯拉的汽车并不完美，但它们确实推动了电动汽车行业的发展。我个人更喜欢现代/起亚的产品。
Carrente
I mean even aside from the idiot in charge the cars themselves seem to make Alfa Romeos seem well engineered...
我是说，就算撇开那个蠢货老板不谈，这些车本身让阿尔法·罗密欧（译者注：阿尔法罗密欧的车以设计见长但小毛病多闻名）都显得像是做工精良的典范了……
bristoltim
I recall the Chief Executive of Ford recently described his visit to Chinese EV manufacturing factories as "terrifying to find out how far we are behind".
Time will tell if Western car manufacturers can change to compete with these more advanced products or whether, like the French wine makers did with the New World wines a few decades ago, they will retreat behind a torrent of sneering and disinformation until one day they wake up to find they have been left in the dust.
我记得福特汽车的首席执行官最近在描述他参观中国电动汽车制造工厂的经历时说，“发现我们落后了这么多，真是令人心惊”。时间会证明西方汽车制造商是否能够做出改变，去与这些更先进的产品竞争，还是会像几十年前法国葡萄酒商对待“新世界”葡萄酒那样，躲在一连串的冷嘲热讽和虚假信息背后，直到有一天醒来发现自己已被远远甩在身后。
PatchcordAdams
I’ve been following EV’s for a long time. Still have my first gen Nissan Leaf.
The pace of development of Chinese vehicles is absolutely astonishing.
Another 5-10yrs and only protectionism will keep any other global car industry alive.
我关注电动汽车已经很长一段时间了，现在手里还有第一代日产聆风。中国汽车的发展速度简直令人震惊。再过5到10年，恐怕只有贸易保护主义才能让其他全球汽车产业存活下去了。
laservole
原始发帖人
yea your right, apparently there is some Subsisides by the Chinese Govs though so its not all natural, i read a lot about that online
maybe this will be the Japanese auto industry takeover 2.0? Who knows
是啊，你说得对。不过据说中国政府提供了不少补贴，所以这势头也不全是自然形成的，我网上看了好多这方面的说法。
也许这会成为日本汽车工业被取代 2.0 版？谁知道呢。
dbxp
Subsidies are only part of the picture, there has been a gradual move for European manufacturers to ignore the cheap run about market. The majority of people don't drive for the 'love of driving', they just want something which will get them from A to B and not breakdown too often.
补贴只是其中一部分原因。欧洲制造商逐渐放弃平价代步车市场，这才是关键。大多数人开车并不是为了追求“驾驶乐趣”，他们只是想要一辆能可靠地把人从A点运到B点、还不怎么出毛病的车而已。
wintermute023
It’s also mindset. Western companies live and die by quarterly results, and annual earnings calls. There’s no room for a long term strategy (over generalisation).
Many Asian companies are willing to forego short term returns to build long term value, and it shows. They plan for 5 years, 10 years, even more.
这也和思维模式有关。西方企业的生死取决于季度业绩和年度财报电话会议，基本没有制定长期战略的空间（这是一个比较笼统的说法）。
很多亚洲企业愿意放弃短期回报来打造长期价值，这一点已经体现得很明显。他们会做5年、10年甚至更久的规划。
laservole
原始发帖人
yes and these new Chinese EVs are perfect A to B vehicles for 99% of people that just want a new flashy cheap vehicle that looks good
是的，而且对于99%只想拥有一辆看起来时髦、价格亲民的新车的人来说，这些新款中国电动汽车是完美的代步工具。
DARIF
What is the negative of the Chinese government funding cheaper goods for me? Why should I care about Volkswagen or Ford if they make subpar products?
中国政府补贴让我能买到更便宜的商品，这对我有什么坏处？如果大众和福特造的产品不咋的，我凭什么要在乎它们？
hallerz87
Less about the consumer, more about the worker. If nobody is buying the cars you make everyday because a foreign country is able to undercut pricing because their government subsidizes manufacturers, you're out of the job. The UK auto industry supports 800,000 jobs, that's a lot of jobs potentially affected.
重点不在于消费者，而在于工人。如果没人购买你每天制造的汽车，原因仅仅是外国能通过政府补贴来压低价格，那么你就会失业。英国汽车工业支撑着80万个就业岗位，这可能会造成大量岗位受到影响。
donnerstag246245
Sounds like a policy issue more than a consumer issue.
这听起来更多是一个政策问题，而不是消费者的问题。
Zyggle
If the price was 10~ different and the cars were equally as good, I'd love to buy a British car, then European, then Chinese in order of preference. But they're not, and it's not even close.
如果价格相差一成左右，车子品质又差不多，我肯定优先买英国车，然后是欧洲车，最后才是中国车。但现实根本不是这样，差距甚至还挺大。
EdiT342
Also, less cars made in the UK, lower demand for third party companies to sell stuff for car manufacturers.
I like what Canada was proposing, lowering the tarrifs on Chinese EVs, but with a plan to manufacture these cars in Canada
而且，英国本土汽车产量减少，也会降低汽车制造商对第三方配套供应商的需求。
我挺赞同加拿大之前提出的方案：降低中国电动车的关税，但前提是要有在加拿大本地建厂生产这些车的计划。
Shinyandsmooth8
Yeah and didn’t VW lock speed behind a subscxtion?
I say fuck car manufacturers, bring in the Chinese EVs
对啊，大众不还把限速解锁做成付费订阅了吗？
我说啊，去特么的传统车企，赶紧把中国电动车放进来吧！
Jamitry1
Dumping is a huge issue and part of the reason they are able to outcompete.
倾销是个大问题，也是它们能够击败竞争对手的原因之一。
Fitnessgrac
You make out like other regions don’t subsidise the industry.
The key difference is the Chinese government have a manufacturing strategy and they are reaping what they sow now.
We keep kicking this stuff down the road.
你这么说，好像其他地区不补贴这个行业似的。
关键区别在于中国政府有明确的制造业战略，现在他们只是收获自己种下的成果罢了。
而我们却一直在把这些问题拖延下去。
redberrrrry
The EU is closing ranks to protect the European automakers, which long term might well end up with a British Leyland situation.
欧盟正在抱团保护欧洲汽车制造商，但从长远来看，这很可能最终会重蹈英国利兰的覆辙。（译者注:British Leyland是英国Leyland集团于1968年通过British Motor Holdings与Leyland Motor Corporation合并组建的汽车工业集团。该企业整合了奥斯汀、莫里斯、捷豹、路虎等十余个本土汽车品牌，巅峰时期占据英国市场40%份额）
ShufflingToGlory
Absolute scenes when western capitalists erect their own Iron Curtain to protect their financial interests.
The coming century is going to be so weird, particularly for western chauvinists.
这画面太魔幻了——西方资本家为了保护自己的经济利益，竟然亲手竖起了新的“铁幕”。即将到来的这一个世纪将会变得非常魔幻，尤其是对那些西方沙文主义者而言。
situatzi6410
We have to, because much like East Germany, this time, we are the ones who have lagged behind.
“But one must say simply: under capitalism on a national scale it is impossible to carry out production according to plan… They cannot carry out industry or agriculture or transport according to plan. Under capitalism the city must devour the village. Private property hinders them…” - Stalin
I don't fully agree with this quote, or Stalin, of course. But I believe we are seeing the limitations of our system, writ increasingly large.
我们不得不这样做，因为就像当年的东德一样，这一次，落后的是我们。
“但必须简单地说：在资本主义制度下，在全国范围内按照计划进行生产是不可能的……他们无法按照计划进行工业、农业或交通运输。在资本主义制度下，城市必然会吞噬农村。私有制阻碍了他们……”——斯大林
当然，我并不完全认同这段引文，也不完全认同斯大林。但我认为我们正在看到我们这一制度的局限性，而且这些局限性正日益放大。
jp299
I think if western economies adopted one single policy from China they could mitigate a lot of the progress lag: hang the Robber Barons.
我认为，如果西方经济体能从中国借鉴一项政策，就能大幅缓解发展滞后的问题：把那些强盗大亨统统吊死（严惩垄断寡头）。
dbxp
Stellantis seems to already heading that way, an oversized company with too many products and brands held back by their legacy.
Stellantis看起来已经走在了这条路上，它是一家规模过大、产品和品牌过多，却被其历史包袱拖累的公司。
Tom_Tower
And many sub-par products mixed with terrible brand strategy.
再加上一大堆平庸差劲的产品，再配上一塌糊涂的品牌战略。
ceffyl_gwyn
Bad comparison. France still dominates in the wine export market in terms of value, followed by Italy and Spain. No new world producer comes close.
Edit: To add some data, since this is being downvoted, in 2024 French wine exports were worth €11.7bil, Italian wine exports €8.1bil, Spanish wine exports €3bil.
The largest new world producer claimed here to be 'leaving France in the dust' was Australia, with wine exports worth €1.6bil, followed by Chile on €1.5bil and the USA on €1.2bil.
Source.
这个类比不太恰当。就出口额而言，法国在葡萄酒出口市场依然占据主导地位，其次是意大利和西班牙。没有任何一个新世界产酒国能与之相提并论。
修改一下：既然有人踩我，我就补充些数据。2024年，法国葡萄酒出口额为117亿欧元，意大利为81亿欧元，西班牙为30亿欧元。
而这里提到的那个据说是“把法国甩在身后”的最大新世界产酒国 —— 澳大利亚，其葡萄酒出口额仅为16亿欧元。其次是智利，为15亿欧元，美国为12亿欧元。
Fcxk_Lewis
I saw a video that said that China managed to get so far ahead because of its ability to produce batteries. I believe they can produce about 75% of a battery with the resources that they have in China whereas most other countries can only make about 20% of the components. I’m not sure how accurate this is though but apparently it’s how China got the monopoly on batteries.
我看了一个视频，上面说中国之所以能遥遥领先，是因为它有能力生产电池。我相信他们利用中国国内的资源可以生产出一块电池约 75% 的部件，而大多数其他国家只能制造约20%的组件。不过，我不确定这有多准确，但据说这就是中国能垄断电池产业的原因。
Electrical_Swing8166
CATL and BYD between them have something like 55% of the global EV battery market share. Even non-Chinese EV makers like Tesla basically have to use Chinese batteries. It’s definitely a big edge
宁德时代和比亚迪加起来，大概占据了全球电动汽车电池市场55%的份额。即便是特斯拉这类非中国电动车制造商，基本上也得使用中国生产的电池。这无疑是一个巨大的优势。
dbxp
It's the whole network of suppliers and the scale they can work to for domestic customers. They can become one of the largest electric car manufacturers in the world without ever considering foreign markets. When they decide to address international markets they have the economies of scale to under cut everyone else. This isn't just for the car manufacturer but every supplier, you can find a massive sheet steel supplier, glass supplier and battery supplier all in the same city.
这得益于其背后庞大的本土供应商网络，以及能够为国内客户提供的规模化生产体系。他们无需考虑国外市场，就能成为全球最大的电动汽车制造商之一。当他们决定进入国际市场时，凭借这种规模经济，他们有能力以低于其他所有人的价格进行竞争。这不仅适用于汽车制造商，也适用于每一家供应商；在同一个城市里，你就能找到大型的钢板供应商、玻璃供应商和电池供应商。
cbxcbx
China also plan hundreds of years ahead, and we plan only for the next election cycle. All the shit about "why should we cut carbon when China pumps so much out" does my head in. 100% China will be net zero before anyone else, they're just burning a lot in the meantime to get there.
中国的规划着眼于未来几百年，而我们只规划到下一次选举周期。那些关于“既然中国排放那么多，我们为什么要减排”的废话真让我抓狂。中国百分之百会比其他任何国家都先实现净零排放，他们只是在通往目标的路上暂时消耗了大量的能源。
laservole
原始发帖人
yup i saw that. i think he actually imported a car from there (xiaomi i think it was) to the US and drove it as his Daily Driver for 6 months and fell in love with it and didnt wanna return it.
funnily enough my phone is also from xiaomi, i didnt believe it when i found out they started making cars...
是啊，我看过那个视频。我觉得他好像是从中国进口了一辆车（我记得好像是小米）到美国，然后当了六个月的日常代步车，结果开得爱不释手，根本不想还回去。
好笑的是，我的手机也是小米的。当我发现他们竟然开始造车时，我简直不敢相信……
situatzi6410
Ford's action then seemed to be to double down on ICE cars and presumably hope for a protectionist US trade policy.
The West is becoming like China in the 1800s, seeing the limitations of its own economic system.. China by contrast has had the tool of big state reforms to blast through such limitations.
福特当时的做法似乎是加倍押宝燃油车，估计还指望美国出台贸易保护主义政策。
西方正在变得像19世纪的中国一样，逐渐看清自身经济体系的局限……
相比之下，中国拥有大规模国家改革这一工具，能够突破这些局限
anotherbozo
They shot themselves in the foot.
When the Chinese EV industry were picking up, they lobbied to keep them out.
The increased competition would have probably helped US carmakers pick up speed.
他们搬起石头砸了自己的脚。当中国电动汽车行业开始起步时，他们游说政府，试图将中国企业拒之门外。原本更激烈的竞争或许能帮助美国汽车制造商加快发展步伐。
akl78
They already have been, the Japanese did it 50 years ago, they didn’t learn much then and I doubt they will this time either.
这种情况以前就发生过。50年前，日本车企就这么干过，当时他们没吸取多少教训，我怀疑这次他们也一样。
PastLanguage4066
BYD is huge, certainly prefer that to Tesla.
比亚迪规模巨大，我肯定更倾向于选择它而不是特斯拉。
jjgill27
I was looking at them the other day and there are so many new dealerships opening around the country. They are clearly looking to gain serious market share.
前几天我还在关注它们呢，全国各地正有大量新的经销商门店在开业。很明显，他们正瞄准着要抢占巨大的市场份额。
CarpetPedals
They’re already one of the biggest car brands in the world by market cap
按市值计算，它们已经是全球最大的汽车品牌之一。
ToughImprovement276
If I didn’t live in a rented flat (no charger, landlord doesn’t want to install one etc) and there were more public chargers nearby, I’d definitely consider getting a BYD!
如果我不是住在租的公寓里（没有充电桩，房东也不让装之类的），而且附近有更多公共充电桩的话，我肯定会考虑买一辆比亚迪！
laservole
原始发帖人
yes they are actually the biggest EV company in the world, in terms of sales (albeit 70% is probably still in China) i reckon they could easily take over the whole world.
没错，按销量算，他们其实是全球最大的电动汽车公司（尽管约70%可能仍在中国市场），我认为他们完全有能力轻松占领全球市场。
Krogan911
From a niche battery company to making cars that use them, they are growing rapidly
从一家小众电池公司，到生产搭载自研电池的汽车，它们正在飞速发展。
Formal_Produce3759
Not at the moment. If you look at some of the various FB pages for them or forums,they're plagued with problems, the Jaecoo 7 losing power for example and the dealers can't fix them. Not established enough yet to know how to fix them and to get parts for.
目前还没有（考虑买它们的车）。如果你去看看网上一些相关的脸书专页或论坛，就会发现它们毛病缠身，比如捷途7会突然失去动力，而经销商根本修不好。因为他们（在本地）的体系还不够成熟，既不知道怎么修，也难以弄到配件。
laservole
原始发帖人
Fair enough - its insane how 5-10 years ago i didnt see any dealers at all, and recently it seems all of the dealers near me are switching to new previously unknown Chinese EV dealers.
Perhaps in another 5-10 years the infastructure and partts supply will catch up. There is definitely some issues ive read online, youre right.
确实如此 —— 真没想到5到10年前我根本看不到任何这类经销商，而最近我附近的经销商似乎都转向了以前闻所未闻的新型中国电动汽车品牌。也许再过5到10年，基础设施和零部件供应就能跟上来了。网上确实有些问题我也看到过，你说得没错。
Formal_Produce3759
Yeah. I like the look of them and the quality inside seems really good but if I'm dropping 20-30k on one then I'd want an established brand with a network of mechanics that had worked on them previously and good access to parts. Maybe in 5 or 10 years when they're more of a known quantity.
是啊。我挺喜欢它们的外观，内饰质感看起来也相当不错。但既然我要花两三万美元买一辆，那我就希望它是个成熟的品牌 —— 得有成体系的维修网络，有熟练维修它们的技师网络，而且配件也容易弄到。也许再过个五到十年，当它们的市场保有量上来了、各方面都稳定了，那时候会是更好的选择。
Beefstah
This is it for me; they're unproven in terms of long term reliability.
That's why I've only bought Toyotas for the last 25+ years, and while I know they're far from perfect themselves, their reliability has been proven time and again to me, both in personal experience and in large scale review.
As and when another manufacturer of any country gets to that level, then I'll consider them.
这正是我的观点，中国车在长期可靠性方面尚未得到验证。
这就是为什么在过去25年里，我只买丰田。虽然我知道丰田自己也远非完美，但无论是个人经验还是大规模的评测，都一次又一次地证明了它的可靠性。
无论哪个国家的制造商，只要能达到那个水准，我就会考虑购买。
tola9922
Having been in a few BYDs as a passenger I can see them taking off given the spec and the price.
作为乘客体验过几辆比亚迪后，我觉得以它们的配置和价格，卖爆是迟早的事。
SaucyRagu96
Yep I sat in a BYD recently. And it felt like a nicer Tesla. Much cheaper as well. According to the driver/owner much more reliable than his other Tesla
是的，我最近也坐过一次比亚迪。感觉它比特斯拉更高级，而且价格便宜得多。据那位司机/车主说，它比他之前的另一辆特斯拉可靠得多。
hhfugrr3
Cheaper? We looked at BYD about a year ago and they wanted more than tesla for an equivalent car. Have they got much cheaper?
便宜？我们大概一年前看过比亚迪，当时同级别的车他们要价比特斯拉还高。他们降价这么多吗？
Remote-Pool7787
I’m not in the market for an electric vehicle but I think there is a lot of value to be had with these brands. I do however think that Jaecoo are incredibly ugly and I judge everyone that I see in one
我现在不打算买电动车，但我觉得这些品牌性价比确实很高。
不过我真心觉得捷途的车丑爆了，路上看到开这车的人我都会默默吐槽一番。
laservole
原始发帖人
personally i think the jaecoo that DOESNT look like a basketball / fishing net on the front looks quite nice, the boxy one. its the shape of a range rover and a temu rolls royce esque front end.
i definitely think it looks better than some of the new BMW monstrocities!!!!
我个人觉得，如果不看前面那个像篮球网或者渔网一样的格栅，捷途那款方方正正的车型其实挺好看的。它的车身轮廓很有路虎的神韵，车头则有一种拼多多版劳斯莱斯的味道。我绝对认为它比宝马最近出的那些“怪物”设计要顺眼得多！
reckonair
Ive just took delivery of a Sealion 7 it’s excellent!
我刚提了一辆海狮7，车很棒！
JonnoFleming
I thought you were just being silly with the name until I googled it. Still, not as bad as the Ora Funky Cat!
我之前还以为你是在乱起名，直到我去谷歌搜了一下才知道是真的。
不过话说回来，这名字还没欧拉好猫（Ora Funky Cat）那么离谱！
Sutty100
I thought you were joking with that name!
我还以为你是在拿这个名字开玩笑呢！
laservole
原始发帖人
wait until you discover the ORA Funky Cat and the ORA Good cat!!!!
unfoortunately theyve been renamed now, at least in the UK market, but theyre cute funky cars for sure
等你知道欧拉好猫和欧拉芭蕾猫就懂了！！！
可惜现在已经改名了，至少在英国市场是这样，但这些车确实又可爱又有个性。
n0d3N1AL
Great choice, beautiful car and environmentally friendly & safe LFP battery too. The tech, performance and interior quality are really good for the price.
很好的选择，车子确实很漂亮，而且磷酸铁锂电池在环保和安全性上都有不错的口碑。就这个价位来说，它的科技配置、性能表现和内饰质感确实非常有竞争力。
daniscross
I would always go with more established brands as they have spent decades building reliable service and parts networks. Some newer Chinese brands seem to struggle with parts availability. I've seen horror stories of simple repairs leaving a car off the road for months because manufacturers prioritise parts for new production over supporting existing customers.
我总是会选择更成熟的品牌，因为它们花了数十年时间建立了可靠的服务和零部件网络。一些较新的中国品牌似乎在零部件供应方面很吃力。我看到过一些恐怖故事，仅仅是简单的维修却让车子好几个月无法上路，因为制造商优先考虑新车生产，而不是支持现有客户。
CabinetCalm1970
Struggling with parts availability isn't just limited to Chinese brands. Pretty much every marque, including European ones, are suffering with issues of parts availability.
配件供应不足的问题可不只局限于国产品牌。差不多所有品牌，包括欧洲品牌在内，都面临着类似的配件短缺问题。
alx_Breakfast5538
Let’s be honest, it’s not much better with JLR.
老实说，捷豹路虎在这方面也好不到哪儿去。
HankHippopopolous
My brother has a BYD. It’s really nice.
I would absolutely buy one if I lived somewhere with the option to install my own electric charger.
Unfortunately that’s not possible for me right now and public electric chargers are too expensive so it’s not really worth it over keeping my petrol car.
The goal eventually though is to get somewhere where I can have a drive and my own charger and then get an electric car and after seeing and taking his one for a drive I’d definitely consider BYD.
我弟弟有辆比亚迪，车真的很不错。
如果我住的地方能自己安装充电桩的话，我绝对会买一辆。
但遗憾的是，我现在不具备这个条件，而用公共充电桩充电又太贵了，跟留着我的油车比起来不太划算。
不过我的最终目标是搬到一个能有私人停车位并安装自己充电桩的地方，然后换电动车。在试驾过我弟弟的车之后，我肯定会把比亚迪列入考虑范围。
laservole
原始发帖人
yeah without somewhere to safely charge it at home any EV isnt really viable at the moment, not only is it a waste of time but Public charging is basically the same price as fuel!
Good luck with your goal, hopefully you can get a nice EV in the future
是啊，如果没有能在家安心充电的地方，现在开任何电动车都不现实。
不光浪费时间，而且公共充电的价格基本上和烧油差不多了！
祝你早日实现目标，希望你以后能买到一辆称心的电动车。
xDzerx
Compared to how Tesla looked they're way better lol. I'd have no issue owning one tbh
跟特斯拉相比，它们的外观确实好看多了，哈哈。老实说，我完全不介意开一辆。
BlondBitch91
I have family in China and have ridden in many Chinese cars - absolutely I would.
Western car companies need to catch up rapidly with BYD on affordability and quality.
BYD will be the end of Tesla if Musk isn’t careful. Not that I’d be sad about it considering everything he’s done lately.
Just wait until Hongqi comes over here for the luxury market.
我有亲戚在中国，也坐过很多中国车，所以我绝对会考虑买。
西方车企在价格和质量上得赶紧向比亚迪看齐了。
如果马斯克不小心的话，比亚迪将会终结特斯拉。而且鉴于他最近的所作所为，我对此也不会感到难过。
就等着红旗进军这边的豪华车市场吧。
Longjumping-Jello423
Same here, family in China I visit every few months and ride in many electric vehicles.
Insane how far ahead they are compared to the UK.
My cousin has a Nio and instead of charging it he just goes to a charging station, parks up, presses a button and the car reverses into the bay and a robot arm replaces the battery in a couple of minutes with a fully charged one.
You can get a brand new electric car that looks like a 40k car for like 13k.
xiaomi SU7 is like 22k and it looks like a Porsche type sports car.
我也是，我在中国有亲戚，每隔几个月就回去一趟，也会坐很多电动车。
跟英国比起来，中国的技术领先得简直离谱。
我表亲有辆蔚来，他根本不用自己充电，直接开到换电站，停好车，按个按钮，车子自己倒车进工位，然后机械臂在几分钟内就把电池换成满电的了。
你花13,000美元就能买到一辆看着像40,000美元级别的全新电动车。
小米SU7才22,000美元，看着就像保时捷那种跑车。
Key-Original-225
I see those jaecoo SUVs everywhere recently, they look like Lidl own brand range rovers. I’ve heard they’re pretty good from people who own them.
我最近到处都能看到捷途SUV，它们看起来就像利多自有品牌的路虎。从车主那里听说它们还不错。
laservole
原始发帖人
yup ik the ones youre on about they are everywhere think its because they are dirt cheap.
they may look like lidl own brand range rovers, but i think they look Damn good. Much better than some of the modern BMW monstrocities!!!
没错，我懂你说的那些车，它们现在满大街都是，我觉得是因为它们真的太便宜了。虽然它们看起来像利多的路虎，但我真心觉得它们很好看。比宝马现在那些怪物级的设计顺眼多了！！！
Key-Original-225
Modern BMWs are easily some of the worst looking cars (but to be honest most cars nowadays look very similar and bland)
现在的宝马车型，绝对算得上是外观最难看的车之一（不过说实话，现在大部分车都长得很像，毫无特色）。
0oITo0
Some of the electric BMW's with what looks like a big sticker on the front where the grill was look weird to me.
有些电动版宝马，车头原本是进气格栅的地方，看起来像是贴了个巨大的贴纸，这造型看着真别扭。
Gorilla_Pie
BYD I absolutely would, they’re a very impressive outfit, already a legit Tesla rival. The others I’m less fussed about. It’s true that EVs have turned cars into more like white goods and previously unknown brands can quickly gain momentum. I still remember when people laughed at (Korean, not Chinese) Samsung and LG TVs and considered them cheap and nasty… now look!
比亚迪的话我绝对会考虑，这家公司非常厉害，已经是特斯拉名副其实的竞争对手了。至于其他品牌，我倒没那么感冒。
确实，现在的电动车越来越像家电了，这让一些以前没听过的新品牌能很快追上来。我还记得以前大家嘲笑三星和LG电视（韩国的，不是中国的），觉得它们又便宜又粗糙，现在看看！
FactCheckYou
China is building for future prosperity and you can see it in the way they do business
meanwhile our leaders are actively trying to bring on an apocalypse, to distract us from all their heinous crimes against women, children, and babies, and so they can justify taking away our remaining public services, reducing our standards of living, and leaving us in a dystopian hellscape
they're not perfect, but i don't have any problem buying from China
中国正在为未来的繁荣而建设，这从他们的经商方式中可见一斑。
与此同时，我们的领导人却在刻意制造末日危机，以此来转移我们对他们针对女性、儿童和婴儿犯下的种种骇人罪行的注意力，这样他们才有借口剥夺我们仅剩的公共服务，降低我们的生活水平，把我们扔进一个反乌托邦的地狱景象里。
中国并非完美无缺，但我从不介意购买中国的产品。
Paradroid888
This is it. I see all these comments about Chinese EVs being bad because of state intervention. But in this country we used to have state intervention and we were better off than we are now. It's our fault we ruined it all with neoliberal economics.
就是这样。我看到好多评论说中国电动车因为有国家干预所以不好。但在我们国家，我们曾经也有过国家干预，而且那时候我们的日子过得比现在好多了。是我们自己信了新自由主义经济学，把一切都搞砸了，这得怪我们自己。
Carrente
I'd buy literally anything before a Tesla
我就算买别的任何车，也绝对不买特斯拉。
laservole
原始发帖人
Fairs crazy what one man can do to a business
一个人能把一家企业搞成这样，也真是离谱。（指的是马斯克）
MorningToast
Tesla is less of a business and more of a stock market experiment. Over hyped shit.
特斯拉与其说是一家企业，不如说是一场股市实验。纯属过度炒作的垃圾。
vdawg01
Balenciaga of car market
汽车界的巴黎世家
laservole
原始发帖人
Pretty good anecdote to be fair, cant argue with that!
说真的，这例子举得很生动，没毛病！
TimGessner
I don't have any brand loyalty and I think Musk is a d*ck, but I bought a M3 performance in 2019 when there was literally nothing close to it on the market. I've done 80k miles in it, it's never been out of sport mode (and I've got a heavy right foot,) I've not been bothered about careful charging etc. I often use it more like a van, filling it with toolboxes, and I have a roof rack on it that I've carried ladders, timber and scaffolding on. In the 7 years I've owned it, the only issue was a drivers seat occupancy sensor which was changed under warranty.. and that's it. Nothing in 7 years. The original brake pads still have about 7mm on them. It's never been serviced. And as a bonus I had free charging at work for the first 5 years. Anecdotal I know, but I don't know what more you could expect from a vehicle? Runs flawlessly for 7+ years, does 0-60 in 3 seconds, practical, and totally reliable. Over-hyped shit my arse!
我对品牌没什么忠诚度，而且我也觉得马斯克是个混蛋，但我2019年买了一辆Model3高性能版，当时市面上真没什么车能跟它比。我已经开了8万英里，一直挂着运动模式开（我的脚也比较重），从来没刻意讲究过怎么充电之类的。我经常把它当货车用，塞满工具箱，还装了车顶架，拉过梯子、木料、脚手架。开了7年，唯一出过的问题就是驾驶位座椅感应传感器，在保修期内换了…… 仅此而已。7年啥毛病没有。原厂刹车片还剩大概7毫米。从来没做过保养。还有个福利：前5年在公司充电免费。
我知道这只是我个人的使用经历，但一辆车你还能要求更多呢？7年多开下来完美无瑕，零百加速3秒，实用，还特别可靠。说它是过度炒作的垃圾？扯蛋吧！
Jazzlike-Compote4463
And yet I would still never buy one because of the absolute bell-end that owns the company.
可我还是绝对不会再买，就因为这家公司的老板是个彻头彻尾的混蛋
BraveLordWilloughby
And these major Chinese CCP-backed companies are run by absolute angels...
而这些有中G背景的大型中国企业，管理层全都是纯洁的天使……
fezzuk
Don't have to buy one of those either.
我也不一定非要买那些。
laservole
原始发帖人
if u dont like them because of the owner, i completely understand, but the actual vehicles themselves are pretty good, ive been in a few including one from 2014 and its unbelieable how far ahead it was for its time. nothing was close. they are starting to catch up now though.
another USP they have is their supercharger network which is a major advantage over the spotty unreliable public ones their rivals have
如果你不喜欢它们是因为老板的原因，我完全理解，但车本身确实挺好的。我坐过几辆，包括一辆2014年的车，它在当时领先的程度简直难以置信，根本没有能与之相比的。不过现在它们（竞争对手）已经开始赶上来了。它们的另一个独特卖点是超级充电网络，比起竞争对手那些零星且不可靠的公共充电桩，这确实是一个巨大的优势。
Winter-Swimmer-3000
Shame about the electronic door handles though.
不过那电子门把手是真的拉胯
MorningToast
What was far ahead for it's time? Like, what exactly?
The idea that traditional manufacturers are playing catch up at this point is also silly, what are they still behind on exactly? I've driven several brands of electric vehicles (company cars) and currently drive a bmw i4, it's an actual car, solid, dependable, a pleasure to drive. My Tesla was like a computer with wheels., it felt cheap and plastic, I couldn't wait to get out of it.
它当年到底超前在哪了？具体来说，是什么地方？
现在还说传统车企在追赶，这也很离谱 —— 它们到底还落后在哪？我开过好几个品牌的电动车（都是公司配车），现在开的是宝马i4。它是一辆正经的车，扎实、可靠、开着舒服。我的特斯拉就像一台装了轮子的电脑，感觉廉价、全是塑料感，我巴不得赶紧下车。
EntirelyRandom1590
Tesla built a car and a charging network that was integrated from the beginning (let's not forget that in Europe it was competing against the Chamedo Leaf and AC Zoe initially).
And whilst it's never achieved full self driving, there's still many companies that can't do a decent crack at auto cruise on motorway (MG).
Tesla also have better overall packaging (frunk, interior space, deep boots), better efficiency and typically better charge curves.
They also were one of the first to bring LFP batteries to the wider market, which is a good improvement on cobalt -chem.
If you want to see bad implementation, see Stellantis, early ID cars, Audi/Porsche drivetrains, iPace unreliability etc etc
Tesla cars aren't perfect, but they have moved the game on for electric vehicles. I prefer Hyundai/Kia products myself.
特斯拉从一开始就构建了汽车与充电网络一体化的系统（别忘了，在欧洲，它最初可是与采用CHAdeMO标准的日产聆风以及AC充电的雷诺Zoe在竞争）。（译者注：首先，原文中Chamedo估计是打错了，应该是CHAdeMO，日本制定的汽车快充标准。日产聆风和雷诺Zoe都是在2010年左右推出的电动车，算是电动车的先驱车型）
虽然它一直没能实现完全自动驾驶，但仍有很多公司连高速公路上的自动巡航都做不好（比如名爵）。
特斯拉在整体封装布局（前备箱、内部空间、深后备箱）、能效以及充电曲线方面也通常做得更好。
他们也是首批将磷酸铁锂电池推向更广阔市场的公司之一，这对钴基化学电池来说是一项不错的改进。
如果你想看看糟糕的实现，看看Stellantis、早期的ID系列车型、奥迪/保时捷的动力系统、捷豹iPace的可靠性问题等等就知道了。（译者注：Stellantis是标致雪铁龙与菲亚特克莱斯勒于2021年1月16日通过平等合并成立的跨国汽车制造商）
特斯拉的汽车并不完美，但它们确实推动了电动汽车行业的发展。我个人更喜欢现代/起亚的产品。
Carrente
I mean even aside from the idiot in charge the cars themselves seem to make Alfa Romeos seem well engineered...
我是说，就算撇开那个蠢货老板不谈，这些车本身让阿尔法·罗密欧（译者注：阿尔法罗密欧的车以设计见长但小毛病多闻名）都显得像是做工精良的典范了……
bristoltim
I recall the Chief Executive of Ford recently described his visit to Chinese EV manufacturing factories as "terrifying to find out how far we are behind".
Time will tell if Western car manufacturers can change to compete with these more advanced products or whether, like the French wine makers did with the New World wines a few decades ago, they will retreat behind a torrent of sneering and disinformation until one day they wake up to find they have been left in the dust.
我记得福特汽车的首席执行官最近在描述他参观中国电动汽车制造工厂的经历时说，“发现我们落后了这么多，真是令人心惊”。时间会证明西方汽车制造商是否能够做出改变，去与这些更先进的产品竞争，还是会像几十年前法国葡萄酒商对待“新世界”葡萄酒那样，躲在一连串的冷嘲热讽和虚假信息背后，直到有一天醒来发现自己已被远远甩在身后。
PatchcordAdams
I’ve been following EV’s for a long time. Still have my first gen Nissan Leaf.
The pace of development of Chinese vehicles is absolutely astonishing.
Another 5-10yrs and only protectionism will keep any other global car industry alive.
我关注电动汽车已经很长一段时间了，现在手里还有第一代日产聆风。中国汽车的发展速度简直令人震惊。再过5到10年，恐怕只有贸易保护主义才能让其他全球汽车产业存活下去了。
laservole
原始发帖人
yea your right, apparently there is some Subsisides by the Chinese Govs though so its not all natural, i read a lot about that online
maybe this will be the Japanese auto industry takeover 2.0? Who knows
是啊，你说得对。不过据说中国政府提供了不少补贴，所以这势头也不全是自然形成的，我网上看了好多这方面的说法。
也许这会成为日本汽车工业被取代 2.0 版？谁知道呢。
dbxp
Subsidies are only part of the picture, there has been a gradual move for European manufacturers to ignore the cheap run about market. The majority of people don't drive for the 'love of driving', they just want something which will get them from A to B and not breakdown too often.
补贴只是其中一部分原因。欧洲制造商逐渐放弃平价代步车市场，这才是关键。大多数人开车并不是为了追求“驾驶乐趣”，他们只是想要一辆能可靠地把人从A点运到B点、还不怎么出毛病的车而已。
wintermute023
It’s also mindset. Western companies live and die by quarterly results, and annual earnings calls. There’s no room for a long term strategy (over generalisation).
Many Asian companies are willing to forego short term returns to build long term value, and it shows. They plan for 5 years, 10 years, even more.
这也和思维模式有关。西方企业的生死取决于季度业绩和年度财报电话会议，基本没有制定长期战略的空间（这是一个比较笼统的说法）。
很多亚洲企业愿意放弃短期回报来打造长期价值，这一点已经体现得很明显。他们会做5年、10年甚至更久的规划。
laservole
原始发帖人
yes and these new Chinese EVs are perfect A to B vehicles for 99% of people that just want a new flashy cheap vehicle that looks good
是的，而且对于99%只想拥有一辆看起来时髦、价格亲民的新车的人来说，这些新款中国电动汽车是完美的代步工具。
DARIF
What is the negative of the Chinese government funding cheaper goods for me? Why should I care about Volkswagen or Ford if they make subpar products?
中国政府补贴让我能买到更便宜的商品，这对我有什么坏处？如果大众和福特造的产品不咋的，我凭什么要在乎它们？
hallerz87
Less about the consumer, more about the worker. If nobody is buying the cars you make everyday because a foreign country is able to undercut pricing because their government subsidizes manufacturers, you're out of the job. The UK auto industry supports 800,000 jobs, that's a lot of jobs potentially affected.
重点不在于消费者，而在于工人。如果没人购买你每天制造的汽车，原因仅仅是外国能通过政府补贴来压低价格，那么你就会失业。英国汽车工业支撑着80万个就业岗位，这可能会造成大量岗位受到影响。
donnerstag246245
Sounds like a policy issue more than a consumer issue.
这听起来更多是一个政策问题，而不是消费者的问题。
Zyggle
If the price was 10~ different and the cars were equally as good, I'd love to buy a British car, then European, then Chinese in order of preference. But they're not, and it's not even close.
如果价格相差一成左右，车子品质又差不多，我肯定优先买英国车，然后是欧洲车，最后才是中国车。但现实根本不是这样，差距甚至还挺大。
EdiT342
Also, less cars made in the UK, lower demand for third party companies to sell stuff for car manufacturers.
I like what Canada was proposing, lowering the tarrifs on Chinese EVs, but with a plan to manufacture these cars in Canada
而且，英国本土汽车产量减少，也会降低汽车制造商对第三方配套供应商的需求。
我挺赞同加拿大之前提出的方案：降低中国电动车的关税，但前提是要有在加拿大本地建厂生产这些车的计划。
Shinyandsmooth8
Yeah and didn’t VW lock speed behind a subscxtion?
I say fuck car manufacturers, bring in the Chinese EVs
对啊，大众不还把限速解锁做成付费订阅了吗？
我说啊，去特么的传统车企，赶紧把中国电动车放进来吧！
Jamitry1
Dumping is a huge issue and part of the reason they are able to outcompete.
倾销是个大问题，也是它们能够击败竞争对手的原因之一。
Fitnessgrac
You make out like other regions don’t subsidise the industry.
The key difference is the Chinese government have a manufacturing strategy and they are reaping what they sow now.
We keep kicking this stuff down the road.
你这么说，好像其他地区不补贴这个行业似的。
关键区别在于中国政府有明确的制造业战略，现在他们只是收获自己种下的成果罢了。
而我们却一直在把这些问题拖延下去。
redberrrrry
The EU is closing ranks to protect the European automakers, which long term might well end up with a British Leyland situation.
欧盟正在抱团保护欧洲汽车制造商，但从长远来看，这很可能最终会重蹈英国利兰的覆辙。（译者注:British Leyland是英国Leyland集团于1968年通过British Motor Holdings与Leyland Motor Corporation合并组建的汽车工业集团。该企业整合了奥斯汀、莫里斯、捷豹、路虎等十余个本土汽车品牌，巅峰时期占据英国市场40%份额）
ShufflingToGlory
Absolute scenes when western capitalists erect their own Iron Curtain to protect their financial interests.
The coming century is going to be so weird, particularly for western chauvinists.
这画面太魔幻了——西方资本家为了保护自己的经济利益，竟然亲手竖起了新的“铁幕”。即将到来的这一个世纪将会变得非常魔幻，尤其是对那些西方沙文主义者而言。
situatzi6410
We have to, because much like East Germany, this time, we are the ones who have lagged behind.
“But one must say simply: under capitalism on a national scale it is impossible to carry out production according to plan… They cannot carry out industry or agriculture or transport according to plan. Under capitalism the city must devour the village. Private property hinders them…” - Stalin
I don't fully agree with this quote, or Stalin, of course. But I believe we are seeing the limitations of our system, writ increasingly large.
我们不得不这样做，因为就像当年的东德一样，这一次，落后的是我们。
“但必须简单地说：在资本主义制度下，在全国范围内按照计划进行生产是不可能的……他们无法按照计划进行工业、农业或交通运输。在资本主义制度下，城市必然会吞噬农村。私有制阻碍了他们……”——斯大林
当然，我并不完全认同这段引文，也不完全认同斯大林。但我认为我们正在看到我们这一制度的局限性，而且这些局限性正日益放大。
jp299
I think if western economies adopted one single policy from China they could mitigate a lot of the progress lag: hang the Robber Barons.
我认为，如果西方经济体能从中国借鉴一项政策，就能大幅缓解发展滞后的问题：把那些强盗大亨统统吊死（严惩垄断寡头）。
dbxp
Stellantis seems to already heading that way, an oversized company with too many products and brands held back by their legacy.
Stellantis看起来已经走在了这条路上，它是一家规模过大、产品和品牌过多，却被其历史包袱拖累的公司。
Tom_Tower
And many sub-par products mixed with terrible brand strategy.
再加上一大堆平庸差劲的产品，再配上一塌糊涂的品牌战略。
ceffyl_gwyn
Bad comparison. France still dominates in the wine export market in terms of value, followed by Italy and Spain. No new world producer comes close.
Edit: To add some data, since this is being downvoted, in 2024 French wine exports were worth €11.7bil, Italian wine exports €8.1bil, Spanish wine exports €3bil.
The largest new world producer claimed here to be 'leaving France in the dust' was Australia, with wine exports worth €1.6bil, followed by Chile on €1.5bil and the USA on €1.2bil.
Source.
这个类比不太恰当。就出口额而言，法国在葡萄酒出口市场依然占据主导地位，其次是意大利和西班牙。没有任何一个新世界产酒国能与之相提并论。
修改一下：既然有人踩我，我就补充些数据。2024年，法国葡萄酒出口额为117亿欧元，意大利为81亿欧元，西班牙为30亿欧元。
而这里提到的那个据说是“把法国甩在身后”的最大新世界产酒国 —— 澳大利亚，其葡萄酒出口额仅为16亿欧元。其次是智利，为15亿欧元，美国为12亿欧元。
Fcxk_Lewis
I saw a video that said that China managed to get so far ahead because of its ability to produce batteries. I believe they can produce about 75% of a battery with the resources that they have in China whereas most other countries can only make about 20% of the components. I’m not sure how accurate this is though but apparently it’s how China got the monopoly on batteries.
我看了一个视频，上面说中国之所以能遥遥领先，是因为它有能力生产电池。我相信他们利用中国国内的资源可以生产出一块电池约 75% 的部件，而大多数其他国家只能制造约20%的组件。不过，我不确定这有多准确，但据说这就是中国能垄断电池产业的原因。
Electrical_Swing8166
CATL and BYD between them have something like 55% of the global EV battery market share. Even non-Chinese EV makers like Tesla basically have to use Chinese batteries. It’s definitely a big edge
宁德时代和比亚迪加起来，大概占据了全球电动汽车电池市场55%的份额。即便是特斯拉这类非中国电动车制造商，基本上也得使用中国生产的电池。这无疑是一个巨大的优势。
dbxp
It's the whole network of suppliers and the scale they can work to for domestic customers. They can become one of the largest electric car manufacturers in the world without ever considering foreign markets. When they decide to address international markets they have the economies of scale to under cut everyone else. This isn't just for the car manufacturer but every supplier, you can find a massive sheet steel supplier, glass supplier and battery supplier all in the same city.
这得益于其背后庞大的本土供应商网络，以及能够为国内客户提供的规模化生产体系。他们无需考虑国外市场，就能成为全球最大的电动汽车制造商之一。当他们决定进入国际市场时，凭借这种规模经济，他们有能力以低于其他所有人的价格进行竞争。这不仅适用于汽车制造商，也适用于每一家供应商；在同一个城市里，你就能找到大型的钢板供应商、玻璃供应商和电池供应商。
cbxcbx
China also plan hundreds of years ahead, and we plan only for the next election cycle. All the shit about "why should we cut carbon when China pumps so much out" does my head in. 100% China will be net zero before anyone else, they're just burning a lot in the meantime to get there.
中国的规划着眼于未来几百年，而我们只规划到下一次选举周期。那些关于“既然中国排放那么多，我们为什么要减排”的废话真让我抓狂。中国百分之百会比其他任何国家都先实现净零排放，他们只是在通往目标的路上暂时消耗了大量的能源。
laservole
原始发帖人
yup i saw that. i think he actually imported a car from there (xiaomi i think it was) to the US and drove it as his Daily Driver for 6 months and fell in love with it and didnt wanna return it.
funnily enough my phone is also from xiaomi, i didnt believe it when i found out they started making cars...
是啊，我看过那个视频。我觉得他好像是从中国进口了一辆车（我记得好像是小米）到美国，然后当了六个月的日常代步车，结果开得爱不释手，根本不想还回去。
好笑的是，我的手机也是小米的。当我发现他们竟然开始造车时，我简直不敢相信……
situatzi6410
Ford's action then seemed to be to double down on ICE cars and presumably hope for a protectionist US trade policy.
The West is becoming like China in the 1800s, seeing the limitations of its own economic system.. China by contrast has had the tool of big state reforms to blast through such limitations.
福特当时的做法似乎是加倍押宝燃油车，估计还指望美国出台贸易保护主义政策。
西方正在变得像19世纪的中国一样，逐渐看清自身经济体系的局限……
相比之下，中国拥有大规模国家改革这一工具，能够突破这些局限
anotherbozo
They shot themselves in the foot.
When the Chinese EV industry were picking up, they lobbied to keep them out.
The increased competition would have probably helped US carmakers pick up speed.
他们搬起石头砸了自己的脚。当中国电动汽车行业开始起步时，他们游说政府，试图将中国企业拒之门外。原本更激烈的竞争或许能帮助美国汽车制造商加快发展步伐。
akl78
They already have been, the Japanese did it 50 years ago, they didn’t learn much then and I doubt they will this time either.
这种情况以前就发生过。50年前，日本车企就这么干过，当时他们没吸取多少教训，我怀疑这次他们也一样。
PastLanguage4066
BYD is huge, certainly prefer that to Tesla.
比亚迪规模巨大，我肯定更倾向于选择它而不是特斯拉。
jjgill27
I was looking at them the other day and there are so many new dealerships opening around the country. They are clearly looking to gain serious market share.
前几天我还在关注它们呢，全国各地正有大量新的经销商门店在开业。很明显，他们正瞄准着要抢占巨大的市场份额。
CarpetPedals
They’re already one of the biggest car brands in the world by market cap
按市值计算，它们已经是全球最大的汽车品牌之一。
ToughImprovement276
If I didn’t live in a rented flat (no charger, landlord doesn’t want to install one etc) and there were more public chargers nearby, I’d definitely consider getting a BYD!
如果我不是住在租的公寓里（没有充电桩，房东也不让装之类的），而且附近有更多公共充电桩的话，我肯定会考虑买一辆比亚迪！
laservole
原始发帖人
yes they are actually the biggest EV company in the world, in terms of sales (albeit 70% is probably still in China) i reckon they could easily take over the whole world.
没错，按销量算，他们其实是全球最大的电动汽车公司（尽管约70%可能仍在中国市场），我认为他们完全有能力轻松占领全球市场。
Krogan911
From a niche battery company to making cars that use them, they are growing rapidly
从一家小众电池公司，到生产搭载自研电池的汽车，它们正在飞速发展。
Formal_Produce3759
Not at the moment. If you look at some of the various FB pages for them or forums,they're plagued with problems, the Jaecoo 7 losing power for example and the dealers can't fix them. Not established enough yet to know how to fix them and to get parts for.
目前还没有（考虑买它们的车）。如果你去看看网上一些相关的脸书专页或论坛，就会发现它们毛病缠身，比如捷途7会突然失去动力，而经销商根本修不好。因为他们（在本地）的体系还不够成熟，既不知道怎么修，也难以弄到配件。
laservole
原始发帖人
Fair enough - its insane how 5-10 years ago i didnt see any dealers at all, and recently it seems all of the dealers near me are switching to new previously unknown Chinese EV dealers.
Perhaps in another 5-10 years the infastructure and partts supply will catch up. There is definitely some issues ive read online, youre right.
确实如此 —— 真没想到5到10年前我根本看不到任何这类经销商，而最近我附近的经销商似乎都转向了以前闻所未闻的新型中国电动汽车品牌。也许再过5到10年，基础设施和零部件供应就能跟上来了。网上确实有些问题我也看到过，你说得没错。
Formal_Produce3759
Yeah. I like the look of them and the quality inside seems really good but if I'm dropping 20-30k on one then I'd want an established brand with a network of mechanics that had worked on them previously and good access to parts. Maybe in 5 or 10 years when they're more of a known quantity.
是啊。我挺喜欢它们的外观，内饰质感看起来也相当不错。但既然我要花两三万美元买一辆，那我就希望它是个成熟的品牌 —— 得有成体系的维修网络，有熟练维修它们的技师网络，而且配件也容易弄到。也许再过个五到十年，当它们的市场保有量上来了、各方面都稳定了，那时候会是更好的选择。
Beefstah
This is it for me; they're unproven in terms of long term reliability.
That's why I've only bought Toyotas for the last 25+ years, and while I know they're far from perfect themselves, their reliability has been proven time and again to me, both in personal experience and in large scale review.
As and when another manufacturer of any country gets to that level, then I'll consider them.
这正是我的观点，中国车在长期可靠性方面尚未得到验证。
这就是为什么在过去25年里，我只买丰田。虽然我知道丰田自己也远非完美，但无论是个人经验还是大规模的评测，都一次又一次地证明了它的可靠性。
无论哪个国家的制造商，只要能达到那个水准，我就会考虑购买。
tola9922
Having been in a few BYDs as a passenger I can see them taking off given the spec and the price.
作为乘客体验过几辆比亚迪后，我觉得以它们的配置和价格，卖爆是迟早的事。
SaucyRagu96
Yep I sat in a BYD recently. And it felt like a nicer Tesla. Much cheaper as well. According to the driver/owner much more reliable than his other Tesla
是的，我最近也坐过一次比亚迪。感觉它比特斯拉更高级，而且价格便宜得多。据那位司机/车主说，它比他之前的另一辆特斯拉可靠得多。
hhfugrr3
Cheaper? We looked at BYD about a year ago and they wanted more than tesla for an equivalent car. Have they got much cheaper?
便宜？我们大概一年前看过比亚迪，当时同级别的车他们要价比特斯拉还高。他们降价这么多吗？
Remote-Pool7787
I’m not in the market for an electric vehicle but I think there is a lot of value to be had with these brands. I do however think that Jaecoo are incredibly ugly and I judge everyone that I see in one
我现在不打算买电动车，但我觉得这些品牌性价比确实很高。
不过我真心觉得捷途的车丑爆了，路上看到开这车的人我都会默默吐槽一番。
laservole
原始发帖人
personally i think the jaecoo that DOESNT look like a basketball / fishing net on the front looks quite nice, the boxy one. its the shape of a range rover and a temu rolls royce esque front end.
i definitely think it looks better than some of the new BMW monstrocities!!!!
我个人觉得，如果不看前面那个像篮球网或者渔网一样的格栅，捷途那款方方正正的车型其实挺好看的。它的车身轮廓很有路虎的神韵，车头则有一种拼多多版劳斯莱斯的味道。我绝对认为它比宝马最近出的那些“怪物”设计要顺眼得多！
reckonair
Ive just took delivery of a Sealion 7 it’s excellent!
我刚提了一辆海狮7，车很棒！
JonnoFleming
I thought you were just being silly with the name until I googled it. Still, not as bad as the Ora Funky Cat!
我之前还以为你是在乱起名，直到我去谷歌搜了一下才知道是真的。
不过话说回来，这名字还没欧拉好猫（Ora Funky Cat）那么离谱！
Sutty100
I thought you were joking with that name!
我还以为你是在拿这个名字开玩笑呢！
laservole
原始发帖人
wait until you discover the ORA Funky Cat and the ORA Good cat!!!!
unfoortunately theyve been renamed now, at least in the UK market, but theyre cute funky cars for sure
等你知道欧拉好猫和欧拉芭蕾猫就懂了！！！
可惜现在已经改名了，至少在英国市场是这样，但这些车确实又可爱又有个性。
n0d3N1AL
Great choice, beautiful car and environmentally friendly & safe LFP battery too. The tech, performance and interior quality are really good for the price.
很好的选择，车子确实很漂亮，而且磷酸铁锂电池在环保和安全性上都有不错的口碑。就这个价位来说，它的科技配置、性能表现和内饰质感确实非常有竞争力。
daniscross
I would always go with more established brands as they have spent decades building reliable service and parts networks. Some newer Chinese brands seem to struggle with parts availability. I've seen horror stories of simple repairs leaving a car off the road for months because manufacturers prioritise parts for new production over supporting existing customers.
我总是会选择更成熟的品牌，因为它们花了数十年时间建立了可靠的服务和零部件网络。一些较新的中国品牌似乎在零部件供应方面很吃力。我看到过一些恐怖故事，仅仅是简单的维修却让车子好几个月无法上路，因为制造商优先考虑新车生产，而不是支持现有客户。
CabinetCalm1970
Struggling with parts availability isn't just limited to Chinese brands. Pretty much every marque, including European ones, are suffering with issues of parts availability.
配件供应不足的问题可不只局限于国产品牌。差不多所有品牌，包括欧洲品牌在内，都面临着类似的配件短缺问题。
alx_Breakfast5538
Let’s be honest, it’s not much better with JLR.
老实说，捷豹路虎在这方面也好不到哪儿去。
HankHippopopolous
My brother has a BYD. It’s really nice.
I would absolutely buy one if I lived somewhere with the option to install my own electric charger.
Unfortunately that’s not possible for me right now and public electric chargers are too expensive so it’s not really worth it over keeping my petrol car.
The goal eventually though is to get somewhere where I can have a drive and my own charger and then get an electric car and after seeing and taking his one for a drive I’d definitely consider BYD.
我弟弟有辆比亚迪，车真的很不错。
如果我住的地方能自己安装充电桩的话，我绝对会买一辆。
但遗憾的是，我现在不具备这个条件，而用公共充电桩充电又太贵了，跟留着我的油车比起来不太划算。
不过我的最终目标是搬到一个能有私人停车位并安装自己充电桩的地方，然后换电动车。在试驾过我弟弟的车之后，我肯定会把比亚迪列入考虑范围。
laservole
原始发帖人
yeah without somewhere to safely charge it at home any EV isnt really viable at the moment, not only is it a waste of time but Public charging is basically the same price as fuel!
Good luck with your goal, hopefully you can get a nice EV in the future
是啊，如果没有能在家安心充电的地方，现在开任何电动车都不现实。
不光浪费时间，而且公共充电的价格基本上和烧油差不多了！
祝你早日实现目标，希望你以后能买到一辆称心的电动车。
xDzerx
Compared to how Tesla looked they're way better lol. I'd have no issue owning one tbh
跟特斯拉相比，它们的外观确实好看多了，哈哈。老实说，我完全不介意开一辆。
BlondBitch91
I have family in China and have ridden in many Chinese cars - absolutely I would.
Western car companies need to catch up rapidly with BYD on affordability and quality.
BYD will be the end of Tesla if Musk isn’t careful. Not that I’d be sad about it considering everything he’s done lately.
Just wait until Hongqi comes over here for the luxury market.
我有亲戚在中国，也坐过很多中国车，所以我绝对会考虑买。
西方车企在价格和质量上得赶紧向比亚迪看齐了。
如果马斯克不小心的话，比亚迪将会终结特斯拉。而且鉴于他最近的所作所为，我对此也不会感到难过。
就等着红旗进军这边的豪华车市场吧。
Longjumping-Jello423
Same here, family in China I visit every few months and ride in many electric vehicles.
Insane how far ahead they are compared to the UK.
My cousin has a Nio and instead of charging it he just goes to a charging station, parks up, presses a button and the car reverses into the bay and a robot arm replaces the battery in a couple of minutes with a fully charged one.
You can get a brand new electric car that looks like a 40k car for like 13k.
xiaomi SU7 is like 22k and it looks like a Porsche type sports car.
我也是，我在中国有亲戚，每隔几个月就回去一趟，也会坐很多电动车。
跟英国比起来，中国的技术领先得简直离谱。
我表亲有辆蔚来，他根本不用自己充电，直接开到换电站，停好车，按个按钮，车子自己倒车进工位，然后机械臂在几分钟内就把电池换成满电的了。
你花13,000美元就能买到一辆看着像40,000美元级别的全新电动车。
小米SU7才22,000美元，看着就像保时捷那种跑车。
Key-Original-225
I see those jaecoo SUVs everywhere recently, they look like Lidl own brand range rovers. I’ve heard they’re pretty good from people who own them.
我最近到处都能看到捷途SUV，它们看起来就像利多自有品牌的路虎。从车主那里听说它们还不错。
laservole
原始发帖人
yup ik the ones youre on about they are everywhere think its because they are dirt cheap.
they may look like lidl own brand range rovers, but i think they look Damn good. Much better than some of the modern BMW monstrocities!!!
没错，我懂你说的那些车，它们现在满大街都是，我觉得是因为它们真的太便宜了。虽然它们看起来像利多的路虎，但我真心觉得它们很好看。比宝马现在那些怪物级的设计顺眼多了！！！
Key-Original-225
Modern BMWs are easily some of the worst looking cars (but to be honest most cars nowadays look very similar and bland)
现在的宝马车型，绝对算得上是外观最难看的车之一（不过说实话，现在大部分车都长得很像，毫无特色）。
0oITo0
Some of the electric BMW's with what looks like a big sticker on the front where the grill was look weird to me.
有些电动版宝马，车头原本是进气格栅的地方，看起来像是贴了个巨大的贴纸，这造型看着真别扭。
Gorilla_Pie
BYD I absolutely would, they’re a very impressive outfit, already a legit Tesla rival. The others I’m less fussed about. It’s true that EVs have turned cars into more like white goods and previously unknown brands can quickly gain momentum. I still remember when people laughed at (Korean, not Chinese) Samsung and LG TVs and considered them cheap and nasty… now look!
比亚迪的话我绝对会考虑，这家公司非常厉害，已经是特斯拉名副其实的竞争对手了。至于其他品牌，我倒没那么感冒。
确实，现在的电动车越来越像家电了，这让一些以前没听过的新品牌能很快追上来。我还记得以前大家嘲笑三星和LG电视（韩国的，不是中国的），觉得它们又便宜又粗糙，现在看看！
FactCheckYou
China is building for future prosperity and you can see it in the way they do business
meanwhile our leaders are actively trying to bring on an apocalypse, to distract us from all their heinous crimes against women, children, and babies, and so they can justify taking away our remaining public services, reducing our standards of living, and leaving us in a dystopian hellscape
they're not perfect, but i don't have any problem buying from China
中国正在为未来的繁荣而建设，这从他们的经商方式中可见一斑。
与此同时，我们的领导人却在刻意制造末日危机，以此来转移我们对他们针对女性、儿童和婴儿犯下的种种骇人罪行的注意力，这样他们才有借口剥夺我们仅剩的公共服务，降低我们的生活水平，把我们扔进一个反乌托邦的地狱景象里。
中国并非完美无缺，但我从不介意购买中国的产品。
Paradroid888
This is it. I see all these comments about Chinese EVs being bad because of state intervention. But in this country we used to have state intervention and we were better off than we are now. It's our fault we ruined it all with neoliberal economics.
就是这样。我看到好多评论说中国电动车因为有国家干预所以不好。但在我们国家，我们曾经也有过国家干预，而且那时候我们的日子过得比现在好多了。是我们自己信了新自由主义经济学，把一切都搞砸了，这得怪我们自己。
