部长表示，希腊将向英国提供重要馆藏来交换帕台农神庙大理石雕像
正文翻译
（Greece could organise rotating exhibitions of some of its most imortant artefacts to replace the Parthenon marbles, were they to be returned to Athens.）
（希腊可以组织一些最重要的文物交流轮展，以取代帕台农神庙的大理石雕塑，如果它们被送回雅典的话。）
新闻：
Greece would offer major treasures to UK for Parthenon marbles, minister says
-Culture minister Lina Mendoni pledges to ‘fill the void’ at British Museum should ancient sculptures be returned to Athens
部长表示，希腊将向英国提供重要馆藏来交换帕台农神庙大理石雕像
——文化部长莉娜·门多尼承诺，如果古代雕像被归还给雅典，将“填补大英博物馆的空位”
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-Culture minister Lina Mendoni pledges to ‘fill the void’ at British Museum should ancient sculptures be returned to Athens
部长表示，希腊将向英国提供重要馆藏来交换帕台农神庙大理石雕像
——文化部长莉娜·门多尼承诺，如果古代雕像被归还给雅典，将“填补大英博物馆的空位”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
（Greece could organise rotating exhibitions of some of its most imortant artefacts to replace the Parthenon marbles, were they to be returned to Athens.）
（希腊可以组织一些最重要的文物交流轮展，以取代帕台农神庙的大理石雕塑，如果它们被送回雅典的话。）
新闻：
Greece is prepared to part with some of its greatest treasures to “fill the void” at the British Museum if the Parthenon marbles were reunited in Athens, the country’s culture minister has said.
希腊文化部长表示，如果帕台农神庙的大理石雕塑在雅典重新团聚，希腊准备拿出一些最珍贵的文物来“填补”大英博物馆的空缺。
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希腊文化部长表示，如果帕台农神庙的大理石雕塑在雅典重新团聚，希腊准备拿出一些最珍贵的文物来“填补”大英博物馆的空缺。
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Speaking to the Guardian at the end of a momentous year for the campaign to retrieve the fifth-century BC masterpieces, Lina Mendoni promised that the London institution’s revered Greek galleries would never go empty.
今年是追回公元前5世纪杰作运动的重要一年，在年末，莉娜·门多尼向《卫报》承诺，这家伦敦机构备受尊敬的希腊画廊（在归还雕像后）永远不会空无一人。
今年是追回公元前5世纪杰作运动的重要一年，在年末，莉娜·门多尼向《卫报》承诺，这家伦敦机构备受尊敬的希腊画廊（在归还雕像后）永远不会空无一人。
“Our position is clear,” she said. “Should the sculptures be reunited in Athens, Greece is prepared to organise rotating exhibitions of important antiquities that would fill the void.”
“我们的立场很明确，”她说。“如果这些雕塑在雅典重新团聚，希腊准备组织重要文物的交流轮展，以填补（大英博物馆的）空缺。”
“我们的立场很明确，”她说。“如果这些雕塑在雅典重新团聚，希腊准备组织重要文物的交流轮展，以填补（大英博物馆的）空缺。”
Asked if particular works had been requested by London, the minister – a classical archaeologist by training – insisted continuing discussions had not extended to “specific artefacts”.
当被问及伦敦是否要求提供特定的文物时，这位训练有素的古典考古学家坚称，正在进行的讨论尚未扩展到“特定的文物”。
当被问及伦敦是否要求提供特定的文物时，这位训练有素的古典考古学家坚称，正在进行的讨论尚未扩展到“特定的文物”。
But for the first time she gave a glimpse of how far Athens was willing to go to compensate the British Museum for relinquishing the sculptures – seen as the high point of art in the classical age – saying any antiquities sent to the UK would also be crowd-pullers.
但她第一次透露了雅典愿意在多大程度上补偿大英博物馆放弃这些被视为古典时代艺术巅峰的雕塑。她说，任何被送到英国的古希腊文物也会吸引大量游客。
但她第一次透露了雅典愿意在多大程度上补偿大英博物馆放弃这些被视为古典时代艺术巅峰的雕塑。她说，任何被送到英国的古希腊文物也会吸引大量游客。
“[They] would fill the void, maintain, and constantly renew, international visitor interest in the Greek galleries of the British Museum,” Mendoni said, though she cautioned that “any agreement and all its particulars, would have to be in accordance with the Greek law on cultural heritage”.
门多尼说：“（它们）将填补空白，保持并不断更新国际游客对大英博物馆希腊画廊的兴趣。”不过她提醒，“任何协议及其所有细节都必须符合希腊文化遗产法。”
门多尼说：“（它们）将填补空白，保持并不断更新国际游客对大英博物馆希腊画廊的兴趣。”不过她提醒，“任何协议及其所有细节都必须符合希腊文化遗产法。”
Since the idea of a cultural exchange was mooted, soon after the centre-right New Democracy party of the prime minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, won power in 2019, speculation has been rife that treasures including Agamemnon’s Mask – the gold funerary mask described by some historians as the “Mona Lisa of prehistory” – could be sent to Britain in return for the marbles.
自从文化交流的想法在总理基里亚科斯·米佐塔基斯领导的中右翼新民主党在2019年赢得政权后不久就被提出以来，人们普遍猜测，包括阿伽门农的面具在内的馆藏可能会被送往英国，以换取这些大理石。阿伽门农的面具是一些历史学家称之为“史前的蒙娜丽莎”的金色葬礼面具。
自从文化交流的想法在总理基里亚科斯·米佐塔基斯领导的中右翼新民主党在2019年赢得政权后不久就被提出以来，人们普遍猜测，包括阿伽门农的面具在内的馆藏可能会被送往英国，以换取这些大理石。阿伽门农的面具是一些历史学家称之为“史前的蒙娜丽莎”的金色葬礼面具。
In a marked shift from the acrimony that has dominated Europe’s longest-running cultural dispute, both sides have begun to speak of “a partnership” that could offer a “win-win” solution to resolving the row.
在欧洲历时最久的文化争端中，双方都开始谈论“伙伴关系”，这可能为解决争端提供“双赢”的解决方案，这是一个明显的转变。
在欧洲历时最久的文化争端中，双方都开始谈论“伙伴关系”，这可能为解决争端提供“双赢”的解决方案，这是一个明显的转变。
George Osborne, the British Museum’s chair, responding to the drive by Athens to reunite the marbles, has appeared more determined to tackle the issue head-on than any of his predecessors.
大英博物馆主席乔治·奥斯本对雅典方面重新团聚大理石的行动做出了回应，他似乎比任何前任都更有决心正面解决这个问题。
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大英博物馆主席乔治·奥斯本对雅典方面重新团聚大理石的行动做出了回应，他似乎比任何前任都更有决心正面解决这个问题。
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He is the first museum chair to publicly acknowledge the controversy surrounding the antiquities’ presence in the British Museum. The museum bought them in 1816 from a bankrupt Lord Elgin, a former ambassador to the Ottoman empire, who himself had them removed from the Parthenon temple and elsewhere on Athens’ Acropolis with the use of marble saws.
他是第一位公开承认围绕这些文物在大英博物馆存在的争议的博物馆主席。博物馆于1816年从破产的埃尔金勋爵手中买下了它们。埃尔金勋爵曾任驻奥斯曼帝国大使，他亲自用大理石锯将它们从帕台农神庙和雅典卫城的其他地方移走。
他是第一位公开承认围绕这些文物在大英博物馆存在的争议的博物馆主席。博物馆于1816年从破产的埃尔金勋爵手中买下了它们。埃尔金勋爵曾任驻奥斯曼帝国大使，他亲自用大理石锯将它们从帕台农神庙和雅典卫城的其他地方移走。
The former chancellor has more than once this year hinted that a compromise settlement could be in the offing.
这位前主席今年不止一次暗示可能会达成妥协解决方案。
这位前主席今年不止一次暗示可能会达成妥协解决方案。
“We want to create a proper partnership,” Osborne told MPs on the culture, media and sport committee in October. “[One] that would mean obxts from Greece coming here, obxts that have potentially never left Greece before and certainly never been seen before, and obxts from the Parthenon collection potentially travelling to Greece.”
今年10月，奥斯本在文化、媒体和体育委员会对议员们说：“我们希望建立一种适当的伙伴关系。这意味着来自希腊的藏品来到这里，这些藏品此前可能从未离开过希腊，当然也从未被看到过，而帕台农神庙的藏品可能会前往希腊。”
今年10月，奥斯本在文化、媒体和体育委员会对议员们说：“我们希望建立一种适当的伙伴关系。这意味着来自希腊的藏品来到这里，这些藏品此前可能从未离开过希腊，当然也从未被看到过，而帕台农神庙的藏品可能会前往希腊。”
Talks aimed at securing a loan deal would continue, he pledged, despite the diplomatic fallout that followed the British prime minister Rishi Sunak’s refusal to meet Mitsotakis in November.
他承诺，尽管英国首相苏纳克去年11月拒绝与米佐塔基斯会面造成了外交影响，但旨在确保借出协议的谈判将继续进行。
他承诺，尽管英国首相苏纳克去年11月拒绝与米佐塔基斯会面造成了外交影响，但旨在确保借出协议的谈判将继续进行。
The British Museum’s collection incorporates nearly half the 160-metre-long Parthenon frieze depicting the procession to the temple of the Panathenaic festival in honour of the warrior goddess Athena, as well as 15 sculpted panels and 17 pedimental figures that were part of its unique decoration.
大英博物馆的藏品包括近一半的160米长的帕台农神庙楣板，描绘了为纪念战斗女神雅典娜而举行的泛雅典娜女神节的游行队伍，以及15个雕刻板和17个山花人物，这些都是其独特装饰的一部分。
大英博物馆的藏品包括近一半的160米长的帕台农神庙楣板，描绘了为纪念战斗女神雅典娜而举行的泛雅典娜女神节的游行队伍，以及15个雕刻板和17个山花人物，这些都是其独特装饰的一部分。
Mendoni, who has repeatedly said Greece cannot discuss borrowing treasures that were plundered in the first place, added: “The Parthenon, a World Heritage monument, with its universal importance … demands its integrity in the place [where the sculptures were carved] and for the reasons that created it.”
门多尼曾多次表示，希腊不能讨论借用一开始就是被掠夺的宝藏，他补充说：“帕台农神庙是世界遗产，具有普遍重要性……这要求它在（雕塑雕刻的）地方和当初创造出它的原因方面保持完整。”
门多尼曾多次表示，希腊不能讨论借用一开始就是被掠夺的宝藏，他补充说：“帕台农神庙是世界遗产，具有普遍重要性……这要求它在（雕塑雕刻的）地方和当初创造出它的原因方面保持完整。”
She denied that the idea of establishing a branch of the British Museum at the Acropolis museum, purpose-built to display the statues, was back on the cards. “There’s been no such discussion,” she said.
她否认在雅典卫城博物馆设立大英博物馆分馆，以专门用来展示这些雕像的想法已经回到了计划之中。“没有这样的讨论，”她说。
她否认在雅典卫城博物馆设立大英博物馆分馆，以专门用来展示这些雕像的想法已经回到了计划之中。“没有这样的讨论，”她说。
While Mitsotakis has said that progress had been slower than he would have liked, many Greeks believe the moral argument for the return of the marbles at least has been won. A YouGov poll released in July revealed 64% of people in the UK now favour repatriation.
虽然米佐塔基斯说，进展比他希望的要慢，但许多希腊人认为，至少归还雕像的道德争论已经赢得了胜利。舆观 7月份发布的一项民意调查显示，64%的英国人现在支持送返雕像。
虽然米佐塔基斯说，进展比他希望的要慢，但许多希腊人认为，至少归还雕像的道德争论已经赢得了胜利。舆观 7月份发布的一项民意调查显示，64%的英国人现在支持送返雕像。
Some commentators have also interpreted King Charles’s wearing of the colours of Greece when he addressed the Cop28 climate summit this month as a sartorial statement of approval for the marbles’ return to the country of his father’s birth.
一些评论人士还将查尔斯国王本月在Cop28气候峰会上发表讲话时身穿希腊国旗颜色服装的行为解读为一种服装上的声明，表示他同意这些大理石雕塑回到他父亲出生的那个国家。
一些评论人士还将查尔斯国王本月在Cop28气候峰会上发表讲话时身穿希腊国旗颜色服装的行为解读为一种服装上的声明，表示他同意这些大理石雕塑回到他父亲出生的那个国家。
When asked if Greece had ruled out taking legal action against the British Museum at a time when ever-more disputed obxts are being returned to their countries of origin, Mendoni said the government would continue “to make full use of the possibilities offered by dialogue and cultural diplomacy”.
当被问及在越来越多有争议的文物被归还原籍国之际，希腊是否排除了对大英博物馆采取法律行动的可能性时，门多尼表示，政府将继续“充分利用对话和文化外交提供的可能性”。
当被问及在越来越多有争议的文物被归还原籍国之际，希腊是否排除了对大英博物馆采取法律行动的可能性时，门多尼表示，政府将继续“充分利用对话和文化外交提供的可能性”。
Asked if she thought Britons had not been told the truth about Elgin and the circumstances in which the marbles were acquired, she invoked Hugh Hammersley, a 19th-century MP, who in 1816 told the House of Commons that the British government’s decision to acquire the sculptures from the Scottish diplomat was an “act of spoliation”.
当被问及她是否认为英国人没有被告知关于埃尔金的真相以及这些大理石被获得的情况时，她援引了19世纪的国会议员休·哈默斯利的话。哈默斯利在1816年告诉下议院，英国政府决定从这位苏格兰外交官那里获得这些雕塑是一种“掠夺行为”。
当被问及她是否认为英国人没有被告知关于埃尔金的真相以及这些大理石被获得的情况时，她援引了19世纪的国会议员休·哈默斯利的话。哈默斯利在1816年告诉下议院，英国政府决定从这位苏格兰外交官那里获得这些雕塑是一种“掠夺行为”。
But Mendoni also spoke of the positive mood behind Greece’s great “national cause”.
但门多尼也谈到了希腊伟大的“民族事业”背后的积极情绪。
但门多尼也谈到了希腊伟大的“民族事业”背后的积极情绪。
“Even people who for years have opposed the return of the sculptures to Greece now support our demand,” she said. “If I was not optimistic, I would not work with fervour and faith for the national cause of reuniting the sculptures in the Acropolis Museum here in Athens.”
“甚至那些多年来一直反对将雕塑归还希腊的人，现在也支持我们的要求，”她说。“如果我不乐观，我就不会怀着热情和信念为雅典卫城博物馆的雕塑重新团聚的国家事业而工作。”
“甚至那些多年来一直反对将雕塑归还希腊的人，现在也支持我们的要求，”她说。“如果我不乐观，我就不会怀着热情和信念为雅典卫城博物馆的雕塑重新团聚的国家事业而工作。”
评论翻译
Peter_Sofa
I get why the Greeks are so pissed off about this, as it was an occupying state (Ottoman Empire) which gave the marbles away
And to be honest its getting very embarrassing for us now, makes the UK look like bigger numpties to the rest of the world
Rotation of artifacts is a great idea and really would anyone notice as well if the marbles were replaced with perfect copies in the British museum?
Who cares really? It's all pretty ridiculous and childish on the part of the UK government.
我明白为什么希腊人对此如此生气，因为是一个占领国（奥斯曼帝国）把大理石拱手让出的
说实话，这对我们来说变得非常尴尬，让英国在世界其他地方看起来更蠢
文物的交流是个好主意，如果大英博物馆里的大理石被完美的复制品所取代，真的会有人注意到吗？
谁在乎呢？就英国政府而言，这一切都非常荒谬和幼稚。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I get why the Greeks are so pissed off about this, as it was an occupying state (Ottoman Empire) which gave the marbles away
And to be honest its getting very embarrassing for us now, makes the UK look like bigger numpties to the rest of the world
Rotation of artifacts is a great idea and really would anyone notice as well if the marbles were replaced with perfect copies in the British museum?
Who cares really? It's all pretty ridiculous and childish on the part of the UK government.
我明白为什么希腊人对此如此生气，因为是一个占领国（奥斯曼帝国）把大理石拱手让出的
说实话，这对我们来说变得非常尴尬，让英国在世界其他地方看起来更蠢
文物的交流是个好主意，如果大英博物馆里的大理石被完美的复制品所取代，真的会有人注意到吗？
谁在乎呢？就英国政府而言，这一切都非常荒谬和幼稚。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
fungibletokens
I get why the Greeks are so pissed off about this, as it was an occupying state (Ottoman Empire) which gave the marbles away
Calling the Ottomans an "occupying state" relative to Greece is very harsh when it administered Greece for about four centuries and there was no unified 'Greece' prior to that.
“我明白为什么希腊人对此如此生气，因为是一个占领国（奥斯曼帝国）把大理石拱手让出的”
称奥斯曼帝国为希腊的“占领国”是非常苛刻的，因为它统治了希腊大约四个世纪，在此之前不存在统一的“希腊”。
I get why the Greeks are so pissed off about this, as it was an occupying state (Ottoman Empire) which gave the marbles away
Calling the Ottomans an "occupying state" relative to Greece is very harsh when it administered Greece for about four centuries and there was no unified 'Greece' prior to that.
“我明白为什么希腊人对此如此生气，因为是一个占领国（奥斯曼帝国）把大理石拱手让出的”
称奥斯曼帝国为希腊的“占领国”是非常苛刻的，因为它统治了希腊大约四个世纪，在此之前不存在统一的“希腊”。
Conchodebar
The Greeks refer to it as the 400 years of slavery so no its not harsh at all. And prior to that there absolutely was a unified 'Greece' in the form of the Byzantine Empire.
希腊人称之为400年的奴隶制，所以这一点也不苛刻。在此之前，绝对存在着一个统一的拜占庭帝国形式的“希腊”。
The Greeks refer to it as the 400 years of slavery so no its not harsh at all. And prior to that there absolutely was a unified 'Greece' in the form of the Byzantine Empire.
希腊人称之为400年的奴隶制，所以这一点也不苛刻。在此之前，绝对存在着一个统一的拜占庭帝国形式的“希腊”。
Longjumping-Volume25Greater Manchester
I’m not disputing your other arguments. However, if you went to the British museum you would find an entire section devoted to replicas very strange. I’ve also been to the museum in Athens and they’re hardly short of visitors. I find this a strange thing for the greeks to be so bothered about. If they were to be returned the marbles, they wouldn’t be restored to the parthenon anyway. I think the history behind the british, elgin and the marbles is an interesting addition to the history of the ancient greeks. I’m not against rotation but id be surprised if the greeks upon receiving the collection would ever rotate it to another museum.
我不是在反驳你的其他论点。然而，如果你去大英博物馆，你发现一整个展区都是复制品会很奇怪的。我还去过雅典的博物馆，那里的游客并不少。我觉得奇怪的是，希腊人怎么为这件事如此烦恼。如果这些大理石被归还，它们也不会被修复到帕台农神庙。我认为英国、埃尔金和大理石雕像背后的历史是对古希腊历史的一个有趣补充。我不反对馆藏交流，但如果希腊人在收到藏品后将其轮换到另一个博物馆，我会感到惊讶。
I’m not disputing your other arguments. However, if you went to the British museum you would find an entire section devoted to replicas very strange. I’ve also been to the museum in Athens and they’re hardly short of visitors. I find this a strange thing for the greeks to be so bothered about. If they were to be returned the marbles, they wouldn’t be restored to the parthenon anyway. I think the history behind the british, elgin and the marbles is an interesting addition to the history of the ancient greeks. I’m not against rotation but id be surprised if the greeks upon receiving the collection would ever rotate it to another museum.
我不是在反驳你的其他论点。然而，如果你去大英博物馆，你发现一整个展区都是复制品会很奇怪的。我还去过雅典的博物馆，那里的游客并不少。我觉得奇怪的是，希腊人怎么为这件事如此烦恼。如果这些大理石被归还，它们也不会被修复到帕台农神庙。我认为英国、埃尔金和大理石雕像背后的历史是对古希腊历史的一个有趣补充。我不反对馆藏交流，但如果希腊人在收到藏品后将其轮换到另一个博物馆，我会感到惊讶。
mustbemaking
It is an obvious scapegoat and a way of attempting to score political points. They win both ways, if they do get the marbles, they have a “win”. If they get rejected publicly then they get public perception swayed toward hatred for the British.
Frankly, it’s similar to the falklands war and how it started.
这显然只是一个替罪羊，也是试图在政治上得分的一种方式。他们双方都赢了，如果他们拿到雕像，他们赢了。如果他们被公开拒绝，那么他们就会让公众对英国人产生仇恨。
坦率地说，这与马岛战争及其起源很相似。
It is an obvious scapegoat and a way of attempting to score political points. They win both ways, if they do get the marbles, they have a “win”. If they get rejected publicly then they get public perception swayed toward hatred for the British.
Frankly, it’s similar to the falklands war and how it started.
这显然只是一个替罪羊，也是试图在政治上得分的一种方式。他们双方都赢了，如果他们拿到雕像，他们赢了。如果他们被公开拒绝，那么他们就会让公众对英国人产生仇恨。
坦率地说，这与马岛战争及其起源很相似。
Hubrath
It's not just the marbles, it's about giving them back that's the problem, the British museum is full of items that the British occurred during occupations and other shady means. If we give the marbles back they are scared of setting a precedent and other countries wanting their artifacts back from the museum. John Oliver did a segment on it which goes into it in some detail.
问题不只是大理石雕像，而是归还它们，这才是问题所在，大英博物馆里有很多英国人在占领期间和利用其他不正当手段获得的藏品。如果我们把雕像还给他们，他们害怕开创了先例，那么其他国家也想从博物馆拿回他们的文物。约翰·奥利弗（译注：脱口秀记者）做过一个专题，详细介绍了这个问题。
It's not just the marbles, it's about giving them back that's the problem, the British museum is full of items that the British occurred during occupations and other shady means. If we give the marbles back they are scared of setting a precedent and other countries wanting their artifacts back from the museum. John Oliver did a segment on it which goes into it in some detail.
问题不只是大理石雕像，而是归还它们，这才是问题所在，大英博物馆里有很多英国人在占领期间和利用其他不正当手段获得的藏品。如果我们把雕像还给他们，他们害怕开创了先例，那么其他国家也想从博物馆拿回他们的文物。约翰·奥利弗（译注：脱口秀记者）做过一个专题，详细介绍了这个问题。
StarstreakII
I don’t think the marbles can be argued to have been gained in shady means, the Ottoman Empire gave them as a thank you for kicking Napoleon out of their territory.
It’s also an awkward problem as Greece doesn’t acknowledge British ownership of the property to begin with, the museum was willing to loan it but if they refuse to acknowledge ownership is British they won’t accept any kind of agreement other than unconditional surrender of them. I can only assume it’s a political issue in Greece to distract from their own troubles like over here I’m sure Tory press like to use it to distract from ours.
我不认为这些大理石是通过不正当的手段得来的，是奥斯曼帝国把它们作为（英国）把拿破仑赶出了他们的领土的谢礼。
这也是一个尴尬的问题，因为希腊不承认英国对该财产的所有权，博物馆愿意借出它，但如果他们拒绝承认所有权是英国人，他们将不会接受任何协议，除非无条件交出这些财产。我只能假设这是希腊的一个政治问题，以转移人们对他们自己的麻烦的注意力，就像这里一样，我相信保守党媒体喜欢用它来转移人们对我们的麻烦的注意力。
I don’t think the marbles can be argued to have been gained in shady means, the Ottoman Empire gave them as a thank you for kicking Napoleon out of their territory.
It’s also an awkward problem as Greece doesn’t acknowledge British ownership of the property to begin with, the museum was willing to loan it but if they refuse to acknowledge ownership is British they won’t accept any kind of agreement other than unconditional surrender of them. I can only assume it’s a political issue in Greece to distract from their own troubles like over here I’m sure Tory press like to use it to distract from ours.
我不认为这些大理石是通过不正当的手段得来的，是奥斯曼帝国把它们作为（英国）把拿破仑赶出了他们的领土的谢礼。
这也是一个尴尬的问题，因为希腊不承认英国对该财产的所有权，博物馆愿意借出它，但如果他们拒绝承认所有权是英国人，他们将不会接受任何协议，除非无条件交出这些财产。我只能假设这是希腊的一个政治问题，以转移人们对他们自己的麻烦的注意力，就像这里一样，我相信保守党媒体喜欢用它来转移人们对我们的麻烦的注意力。
BreakingCircles
Returning would make us look weak and easily bullied, prompting others to try their hands (more than they already do by shrieking about "reparations" and other nonsense.)
交还雕像会让我们看起来软弱，容易被欺负，促使其他国家也蠢蠢欲动（比他们已经通过尖叫“赔偿”和其他扯淡做得更多了）。
Returning would make us look weak and easily bullied, prompting others to try their hands (more than they already do by shrieking about "reparations" and other nonsense.)
交还雕像会让我们看起来软弱，容易被欺负，促使其他国家也蠢蠢欲动（比他们已经通过尖叫“赔偿”和其他扯淡做得更多了）。
Magneto88United Kingdom
Regardless of your view on it, rotation will never happen. As soon as the Elgin Marbles are in Greece they’re never leaving again. The idea that people think that Greece would act in good faith on the matter, given the country’s views on it are, is mad. Especially now we’re not in the EU and the EU would probably support its member state on the issue.
不管你怎么看，轮换永远不会发生。埃尔金大理石雕一到希腊就再也不会离开了。考虑到希腊在这个问题上的观点，人们认为希腊会在这个问题上诚信行事的想法是疯狂的。特别是现在我们不在欧盟，欧盟可能会在这个问题上支持其成员国（而不是我们）。
Regardless of your view on it, rotation will never happen. As soon as the Elgin Marbles are in Greece they’re never leaving again. The idea that people think that Greece would act in good faith on the matter, given the country’s views on it are, is mad. Especially now we’re not in the EU and the EU would probably support its member state on the issue.
不管你怎么看，轮换永远不会发生。埃尔金大理石雕一到希腊就再也不会离开了。考虑到希腊在这个问题上的观点，人们认为希腊会在这个问题上诚信行事的想法是疯狂的。特别是现在我们不在欧盟，欧盟可能会在这个问题上支持其成员国（而不是我们）。
mcmanus2099
The current Greek state is not the same as the Byzantine Empire or the greek city states before it. The Ottoman Empire was no less legitimate a ruler of Greece than the Roman-Byzantine Empire that came before. It's ridiculous to see the Ottomans as an occupying force or to see the current greek state as legitimate owners of greek history.
The problem with swap, share are rotation schemes is that Greece refuses to legally accept Britain as owners of the marbles meaning whatever is agreed could simply be renaged on later.
They could be given back as a sign of good faith and friendship - which off of the back of we could negotiate favourable artifact loan deals but that's about the best we'll do. Anything more is built on sand.
今天的希腊国家与拜占庭帝国或之前的希腊城邦是两码事。奥斯曼帝国统治希腊的合法性不亚于之前的罗马-拜占庭帝国。将奥斯曼帝国视为占领军，或将当前的希腊国家视为希腊历史的合法所有者，都是荒谬的。
交换、分享和轮换计划的问题在于，希腊拒绝在法律上承认英国才是这些大理石的所有者，这意味着无论达成什么协议，都可能在以后重新议定。
它们可以作为诚意和友谊的标志被归还——在此基础上，我们可以协商有利的文物借出协议，但这是我们能做的最好的事情。其他更多的要求都不靠谱。
The current Greek state is not the same as the Byzantine Empire or the greek city states before it. The Ottoman Empire was no less legitimate a ruler of Greece than the Roman-Byzantine Empire that came before. It's ridiculous to see the Ottomans as an occupying force or to see the current greek state as legitimate owners of greek history.
The problem with swap, share are rotation schemes is that Greece refuses to legally accept Britain as owners of the marbles meaning whatever is agreed could simply be renaged on later.
They could be given back as a sign of good faith and friendship - which off of the back of we could negotiate favourable artifact loan deals but that's about the best we'll do. Anything more is built on sand.
今天的希腊国家与拜占庭帝国或之前的希腊城邦是两码事。奥斯曼帝国统治希腊的合法性不亚于之前的罗马-拜占庭帝国。将奥斯曼帝国视为占领军，或将当前的希腊国家视为希腊历史的合法所有者，都是荒谬的。
交换、分享和轮换计划的问题在于，希腊拒绝在法律上承认英国才是这些大理石的所有者，这意味着无论达成什么协议，都可能在以后重新议定。
它们可以作为诚意和友谊的标志被归还——在此基础上，我们可以协商有利的文物借出协议，但这是我们能做的最好的事情。其他更多的要求都不靠谱。
benowillockHumberside
Reminder that again, we didn't plunder or steal them, we saved them from the locals who were burning them for an easy source of lime for building. Had we not, they would not exist nowadays. But no recognition of that, just indignation and outrage.
再次提醒一下，我们没有掠夺或偷走它们，我们是从当地人那里救了它们——那些人为了获得建筑所需的石灰而要焚烧它们。要不是我们，这些雕像今天就不会存在。但没有人承认这一点，有是只是对我们的愤慨和怒火。
Reminder that again, we didn't plunder or steal them, we saved them from the locals who were burning them for an easy source of lime for building. Had we not, they would not exist nowadays. But no recognition of that, just indignation and outrage.
再次提醒一下，我们没有掠夺或偷走它们，我们是从当地人那里救了它们——那些人为了获得建筑所需的石灰而要焚烧它们。要不是我们，这些雕像今天就不会存在。但没有人承认这一点，有是只是对我们的愤慨和怒火。
implette
we didn't plunder or steal them, we saved them from the locals
Yeah, nah. The collective we didn't do anything. They were excavated by Lord Thomas Elgin not out of philanthropic concern, but with the intention of using the sculptures to decorate his mansion. Literally. Look it up. The only reason they ended up in the British Museum at all. was due to massive outcry from Britain's historical community, following which he ended up selling them to the British Museum at a cost of £35,000.
had we not, they would not exist nowadays
Lovely bit of British saviour propoganda. Yes, yes, valiant Lord Elgin rode in and rescued the sculptures from certain destruction. And yet, somehow, miraculously, the bits he chose not to excavate ended up surviving to modernity. Bit odd that.
Ironically enough their transport from Greece to Malta to the UK actually resulted in them sustaining significant irreperable damage. Cheers for that, Thomas.
“我们没有掠夺或偷走它们，我们是从当地人那里救了它们”
不。我们作为一个整体什么都没做。托马斯·埃尔金勋爵挖掘这些雕塑并非出于慈善考虑，而是打算用这些雕塑来装饰他的豪宅。就是想装饰而已。去搜一下。它们最终被大英博物馆收藏的唯一原因，只是英国历史学界的强烈抗议，他最终以3.5万英镑的价格将它们卖给了大英博物馆。
“要不是我们，这些雕像今天就不会存在”
可爱的英国救世主宣传。是的，是的，勇敢的埃尔金勋爵骑着马进来拯救了这些雕塑。然而，不知何故，奇迹般地，他选择没去挖掘的那些雕像剩余部分也最终幸存到了今天。真是有点奇怪。
具有讽刺意味的是，它们从希腊到马耳他再到英国的运输实际上导致它们遭受了重大的不可挽回的损害。为此点个赞，托马斯。
we didn't plunder or steal them, we saved them from the locals
Yeah, nah. The collective we didn't do anything. They were excavated by Lord Thomas Elgin not out of philanthropic concern, but with the intention of using the sculptures to decorate his mansion. Literally. Look it up. The only reason they ended up in the British Museum at all. was due to massive outcry from Britain's historical community, following which he ended up selling them to the British Museum at a cost of £35,000.
had we not, they would not exist nowadays
Lovely bit of British saviour propoganda. Yes, yes, valiant Lord Elgin rode in and rescued the sculptures from certain destruction. And yet, somehow, miraculously, the bits he chose not to excavate ended up surviving to modernity. Bit odd that.
Ironically enough their transport from Greece to Malta to the UK actually resulted in them sustaining significant irreperable damage. Cheers for that, Thomas.
“我们没有掠夺或偷走它们，我们是从当地人那里救了它们”
不。我们作为一个整体什么都没做。托马斯·埃尔金勋爵挖掘这些雕塑并非出于慈善考虑，而是打算用这些雕塑来装饰他的豪宅。就是想装饰而已。去搜一下。它们最终被大英博物馆收藏的唯一原因，只是英国历史学界的强烈抗议，他最终以3.5万英镑的价格将它们卖给了大英博物馆。
“要不是我们，这些雕像今天就不会存在”
可爱的英国救世主宣传。是的，是的，勇敢的埃尔金勋爵骑着马进来拯救了这些雕塑。然而，不知何故，奇迹般地，他选择没去挖掘的那些雕像剩余部分也最终幸存到了今天。真是有点奇怪。
具有讽刺意味的是，它们从希腊到马耳他再到英国的运输实际上导致它们遭受了重大的不可挽回的损害。为此点个赞，托马斯。
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