网友讨论：日本自民党邀请女性参加重要会议，但“只能看，不能说话”
正文翻译
Japan's LDP party invites women to 'look, not talk' at key meetings
日本自民党邀请女性参加重要会议，但“只能看，不能说话”
Japan's LDP party invites women to 'look, not talk' at key meetings
日本自民党邀请女性参加重要会议，但“只能看，不能说话”
Days after Japan's Olympics chief was forced to resign over sexist comments, its governing party has decided to invite women to attend key meetings - as long as they do not speak.
日本奥委会主席因性别歧视言论被迫辞职，几天后，日本执政党决定邀请女性参加重要会议——只要她们不发言。
日本奥委会主席因性别歧视言论被迫辞职，几天后，日本执政党决定邀请女性参加重要会议——只要她们不发言。
The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) proposed allowing five female lawmakers to observe its all-male board meetings.
自由民主党提议允许5名女性议员旁听全男性参加的董事会议。
自由民主党提议允许5名女性议员旁听全男性参加的董事会议。
They cannot talk during the meeting - only submit opinions afterwards.
他们在会上不能讲话，只能会后提意见。
他们在会上不能讲话，只能会后提意见。
Women in Japan have long been alienated from politics and economic participation.
长期以来，日本女性一直被排斥在政治和经济参与之外。
长期以来，日本女性一直被排斥在政治和经济参与之外。
The country ranked 121 in a list of 153 countries on the World Economic Forum's 2020 Global Gender Gap Index.
在世界经济论坛发布的2020年全球性别差异指数中，日本在153个国家中排名第121位。
在世界经济论坛发布的2020年全球性别差异指数中，日本在153个国家中排名第121位。
Two women currently sit on the 12-person board of the LDP, which has been in power almost continuously since 1955.
目前有两名女性在自民党12人的董事会中任职，自1955年以来，自民党几乎一直在执政。
目前有两名女性在自民党12人的董事会中任职，自1955年以来，自民党几乎一直在执政。
Toshihiro Nikai, the 82-year-old LDP secretary general, told a news conference on Tuesday that he wanted to bring a female perspective to the meetings.
现年82岁的自民党总干事二阶俊博在周二的新闻发布会上表示，他希望把女性的观点带入会议。
现年82岁的自民党总干事二阶俊博在周二的新闻发布会上表示，他希望把女性的观点带入会议。
He said he was aware of criticism of the male domination of the party's elected board and it was important that female members of the party "look" at the decision-making process, he was quoted by Reuters as saying.
路透社援引他的话说，他说他意识到对男性主导该党选举委员会的批评，党内女性成员“审视”决策过程是很重要的。
路透社援引他的话说，他说他意识到对男性主导该党选举委员会的批评，党内女性成员“审视”决策过程是很重要的。
"It is important to fully understand what kind of discussions are happening. Take a look, is what it is about," he said.
“重要的是要充分了解正在进行什么样的讨论，看一看，这是关于什么的讨论，”他说。
“重要的是要充分了解正在进行什么样的讨论，看一看，这是关于什么的讨论，”他说。
Japanese media reported that the five women would be allowed to sit in as observers on decision-making board meetings but would not be allowed to speak. They could submit their opinions to the secretariat office afterwards.
日本媒体报道称，这五名女性将被允许以观察员身份列席董事会决策会议，但不允许发言。他们可以事后向秘书处提交意见。
日本媒体报道称，这五名女性将被允许以观察员身份列席董事会决策会议，但不允许发言。他们可以事后向秘书处提交意见。
Currently just 46 of 465 politicians in Japan's Shugiin or House of Representatives are women - that is about 10%, compared to 25% global average.
目前，日本众议院的465名政客中只有46名是女性，约占10%，而全球平均水平为25%。
目前，日本众议院的465名政客中只有46名是女性，约占10%，而全球平均水平为25%。
评论翻译
theguywhodunit
Japan, as a culture, has a lot of great aspects that make it really interesting and it’s been a place I’ve always wanted to travel to. Having said that, by all accounts they are deeply sexist or, at least like in a lot of places, discrimination is still acceptable within the minds of the older generations, who rule and dictate policy.
日本文化有很多优点，这让它变得非常有趣，日本也是我一直想去旅游的地方。话虽如此，从所有人的说法来看，他们都是严重的性别歧视者，或者至少像在很多地方一样，歧视在统治和支配政策的老一辈人的头脑中仍然是可以接受的。
Japan, as a culture, has a lot of great aspects that make it really interesting and it’s been a place I’ve always wanted to travel to. Having said that, by all accounts they are deeply sexist or, at least like in a lot of places, discrimination is still acceptable within the minds of the older generations, who rule and dictate policy.
日本文化有很多优点，这让它变得非常有趣，日本也是我一直想去旅游的地方。话虽如此，从所有人的说法来看，他们都是严重的性别歧视者，或者至少像在很多地方一样，歧视在统治和支配政策的老一辈人的头脑中仍然是可以接受的。
FootofGod
I mean, the older generations were literally fascists, sometimes that just gets forgotten. I love Japan, too, it's just funny how quick we forget relevant history.
我的意思是，老一代确实是法西斯分子，有时人们会忘记这一点。我也喜欢日本，只是有趣的是，我们这么快就忘记了相关的历史。
I mean, the older generations were literally fascists, sometimes that just gets forgotten. I love Japan, too, it's just funny how quick we forget relevant history.
我的意思是，老一代确实是法西斯分子，有时人们会忘记这一点。我也喜欢日本，只是有趣的是，我们这么快就忘记了相关的历史。
BloodyLena
As an Asian, this isn’t solely just in Japan. Unforunately, despite the changes and advancements many Asian countries are still very much sexist.
作为一个亚洲人，这不仅仅发生在日本。不幸的是，尽管有了一些变化和进步，许多亚洲国家仍然存在很大的性别歧视。
As an Asian, this isn’t solely just in Japan. Unforunately, despite the changes and advancements many Asian countries are still very much sexist.
作为一个亚洲人，这不仅仅发生在日本。不幸的是，尽管有了一些变化和进步，许多亚洲国家仍然存在很大的性别歧视。
EpsilonRider
Yeah if we're talking about the older/ruling generation. The majority of basically all Asian nations have that kind of mindset.
是的，如果我们谈论的是老一辈/统治的一代，基本上所有的亚洲国家都有这种心态。
Yeah if we're talking about the older/ruling generation. The majority of basically all Asian nations have that kind of mindset.
是的，如果我们谈论的是老一辈/统治的一代，基本上所有的亚洲国家都有这种心态。
Pudding_Hero
Which is crazy cause every female Japanese person I’ve met was intelligent/respectful. They would probably make better decisions than most of the men I’ve met Japanese included.
这太疯狂了，因为我遇到的每个日本女性都很聪明并尊重他人。他们可能会比我遇到的大多数男性做出更好的决定，包括日本人。
Which is crazy cause every female Japanese person I’ve met was intelligent/respectful. They would probably make better decisions than most of the men I’ve met Japanese included.
这太疯狂了，因为我遇到的每个日本女性都很聪明并尊重他人。他们可能会比我遇到的大多数男性做出更好的决定，包括日本人。
methedunker
Much like the Christian GOP in the US, or the Jewish Likud in Israel, Islamic AKP in Turkey, or the Hindu RSS in India, Japanese politics is currently dominated by the Shinto Nippon Kaigi, who have patently ridiculous ultraconservative beliefs. Former PM Shinzo Abe is a pretty loyal member of this organization.
All this article does is prove that conservatives of any religion as such tend to not place too much stock in women's rights.
Like to me it's kind of distressing that Japan flies under the radar sometimes because of its excellent soft power, but their society has truly shitty facets.
就像美国的基督教大老党，以色列的犹太利库德集团，土耳其的伊斯兰正义与发展党，或者印度的印度教，日本政治目前由日本神道教主导，他们有着明显荒谬的极端保守信仰。前首相安倍晋三是这个组织的忠实成员。
这篇文章所做的只是证明，任何宗教的保守派都倾向于不太重视妇女的权利。
就像对我来说，日本有时因为其优秀的软实力而不引人注意，这有点令人沮丧，但他们的社会确实有糟糕的方面。
Much like the Christian GOP in the US, or the Jewish Likud in Israel, Islamic AKP in Turkey, or the Hindu RSS in India, Japanese politics is currently dominated by the Shinto Nippon Kaigi, who have patently ridiculous ultraconservative beliefs. Former PM Shinzo Abe is a pretty loyal member of this organization.
All this article does is prove that conservatives of any religion as such tend to not place too much stock in women's rights.
Like to me it's kind of distressing that Japan flies under the radar sometimes because of its excellent soft power, but their society has truly shitty facets.
就像美国的基督教大老党，以色列的犹太利库德集团，土耳其的伊斯兰正义与发展党，或者印度的印度教，日本政治目前由日本神道教主导，他们有着明显荒谬的极端保守信仰。前首相安倍晋三是这个组织的忠实成员。
这篇文章所做的只是证明，任何宗教的保守派都倾向于不太重视妇女的权利。
就像对我来说，日本有时因为其优秀的软实力而不引人注意，这有点令人沮丧，但他们的社会确实有糟糕的方面。
untergeher_muc
I’m so glad that Merkel has shifted our Conservative party to the middle.
我很高兴默克尔让我们的保守党转向了中间立场。
I’m so glad that Merkel has shifted our Conservative party to the middle.
我很高兴默克尔让我们的保守党转向了中间立场。
Mikoth
Nippon Kaigi is not a political party, and is hardly religious.
The LDP is the ruling party in Japan, NK is more of a lobby group. By the way, if they were really ruling Japan, their ideas should already be in place which is not the case at all.
日本议会不是一个政党，也不是宗教党派。
自民党是日本的执政党，日本船级社更像是一个游说团体。顺便说一下，如果他们真的统治了日本，他们的想法应该已经到位了，但事实并非如此。
Nippon Kaigi is not a political party, and is hardly religious.
The LDP is the ruling party in Japan, NK is more of a lobby group. By the way, if they were really ruling Japan, their ideas should already be in place which is not the case at all.
日本议会不是一个政党，也不是宗教党派。
自民党是日本的执政党，日本船级社更像是一个游说团体。顺便说一下，如果他们真的统治了日本，他们的想法应该已经到位了，但事实并非如此。
papereel
There are ridiculous, ultraconservative atheists too.
也有荒谬的、极端保守的无神论者。
There are ridiculous, ultraconservative atheists too.
也有荒谬的、极端保守的无神论者。
WhiteWolfofRivia0914
What’s the most depressing part is when the women genuinely want to be part of it. I’ve met women who are staunchly anti-feminist and believe all of the bullshit about how they’re basically supposed to be there to support the man. How do you live with yourself?
最令人沮丧的是当女人真心想要成为其中一员的时候，我遇到过一些坚定地反对女权主义的女性，她们相信那些关于她们应该在那里支持男人的屁话。你怎么能心安理得?
What’s the most depressing part is when the women genuinely want to be part of it. I’ve met women who are staunchly anti-feminist and believe all of the bullshit about how they’re basically supposed to be there to support the man. How do you live with yourself?
最令人沮丧的是当女人真心想要成为其中一员的时候，我遇到过一些坚定地反对女权主义的女性，她们相信那些关于她们应该在那里支持男人的屁话。你怎么能心安理得?
Creefer91
Likud doesn’t fit with the rest of these. They are a center right party that does ally with the ultra-orthodox to form governments but the party platform itself is more akin to Germany’s Christian Democrats
利库德集团和其他集团不相符。他们是一个中间偏右的政党，确实与极端正统派联合组建政府，但其政党纲领本身更类似于德国的基督教民主党
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Likud doesn’t fit with the rest of these. They are a center right party that does ally with the ultra-orthodox to form governments but the party platform itself is more akin to Germany’s Christian Democrats
利库德集团和其他集团不相符。他们是一个中间偏右的政党，确实与极端正统派联合组建政府，但其政党纲领本身更类似于德国的基督教民主党
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Bicentennial_Douche
Just imagine all the productivity and wealth they are missing out on because they treating 50% of their population like this.
想象一下，他们因为这样对待50%的人口而失去了多少生产力和财富。
Just imagine all the productivity and wealth they are missing out on because they treating 50% of their population like this.
想象一下，他们因为这样对待50%的人口而失去了多少生产力和财富。
AhnYoSub
Japan isn’t that high on productivity. They love automatisation but their way of running business is stuck in the 80s. You get promotion based mainly on seniority rather than competency so many people who don’t know what they’re doing get to the top. They still think that working a lot=productivity, which isn’t true anymore. It’s frowned upon to leave before your boss does. Also everyone has to ask everyone for permission.
日本的生产率并没有那么高。他们喜欢自动化，但他们的经营方式仍停留在80年代。你升职主要是根据资历，而不是能力，所以很多人不知道自己在做什么，就能爬到顶端。他们仍然认为大量的工作=生产力，这是不正确的。下班的时候在你的老板之前离开是让人不悦的，而且每个人都要征求每个人的同意。
Japan isn’t that high on productivity. They love automatisation but their way of running business is stuck in the 80s. You get promotion based mainly on seniority rather than competency so many people who don’t know what they’re doing get to the top. They still think that working a lot=productivity, which isn’t true anymore. It’s frowned upon to leave before your boss does. Also everyone has to ask everyone for permission.
日本的生产率并没有那么高。他们喜欢自动化，但他们的经营方式仍停留在80年代。你升职主要是根据资历，而不是能力，所以很多人不知道自己在做什么，就能爬到顶端。他们仍然认为大量的工作=生产力，这是不正确的。下班的时候在你的老板之前离开是让人不悦的，而且每个人都要征求每个人的同意。
chafalie
So much hatred for women.
那么多对女人的仇恨。
So much hatred for women.
那么多对女人的仇恨。
YsoL8
hatred is probably the wrong way of looking at it.
Most of the people involved aren't consciously against women, rather they've just accepted whatever cultural defaults they inherited as the way life works. And the longer you live with a set of beliefs the harder it is to accept they are wrong no matter how little you care about them.
The difference is that people like that are tricky to convince but not impossible.
用仇恨来看待这件事可能是错误的。
参与其中的大多数人并不是有意识地反对女性，他们只是接受了生活方式中继承的任何文化缺陷。你带着一套信念生活的时间越长，你就越难接受它们是错误的，不管你多么不在乎它们。
不同的是，这样的人很难说服，但也不是不可能。
hatred is probably the wrong way of looking at it.
Most of the people involved aren't consciously against women, rather they've just accepted whatever cultural defaults they inherited as the way life works. And the longer you live with a set of beliefs the harder it is to accept they are wrong no matter how little you care about them.
The difference is that people like that are tricky to convince but not impossible.
用仇恨来看待这件事可能是错误的。
参与其中的大多数人并不是有意识地反对女性，他们只是接受了生活方式中继承的任何文化缺陷。你带着一套信念生活的时间越长，你就越难接受它们是错误的，不管你多么不在乎它们。
不同的是，这样的人很难说服，但也不是不可能。
onflightmode
Not hatred I think. Just a very rigid culture surrounding traditions and backward thinking, despite all the modern developments in the cities.
我想不是仇恨。只是一种围绕着传统和落后思想的僵化文化，尽管城市里有很多现代化的发展。
Not hatred I think. Just a very rigid culture surrounding traditions and backward thinking, despite all the modern developments in the cities.
我想不是仇恨。只是一种围绕着传统和落后思想的僵化文化，尽管城市里有很多现代化的发展。
Pudding_Hero
I’ve been to Japan, and I’m no expert, but it’s not like men are just beating women in the streets and tearing their dresses off.
There are plenty of nice people.
我去过日本，虽然我不是专家，但这并不是说男人会在街上殴打女人然后把她们的衣服扯下来。
世界上有很多好人
I’ve been to Japan, and I’m no expert, but it’s not like men are just beating women in the streets and tearing their dresses off.
There are plenty of nice people.
我去过日本，虽然我不是专家，但这并不是说男人会在街上殴打女人然后把她们的衣服扯下来。
世界上有很多好人
Asuka-02-
It's worth noting that there is a STRONG generational divide here. Japanese people about 40 or under are very progressive and truly have no issues with women.
Old Japanese dudes though? Sexist as fuck.
值得注意的是，这里存在着强烈的代沟。大约40岁或40岁以下的日本人是非常进步的，真的对女性没有问题。
不过老日本人，存在性别歧视。
It's worth noting that there is a STRONG generational divide here. Japanese people about 40 or under are very progressive and truly have no issues with women.
Old Japanese dudes though? Sexist as fuck.
值得注意的是，这里存在着强烈的代沟。大约40岁或40岁以下的日本人是非常进步的，真的对女性没有问题。
不过老日本人，存在性别歧视。
LMGDiVa
The younger side still has very sexist views of women. I don't know how you can say they dont. Women are heavily obxtified in daily life and in TV shows.
There are many deeply systemic issues in Japan that are not being addressed or are actively being embraced in the younger crowd. Sexism like this doesnt just disappear over a single generation.
年轻的一代仍然对女性持有非常性别歧视的观点。我不知道你怎么能说他们没有性别歧视。女性在日常生活和电视节目中被严重物化。
在日本，有许多深层次的系统性问题没有得到解决，也没有受到年轻人的积极响应。这样的性别歧视不会在一代人的时间里消失。
The younger side still has very sexist views of women. I don't know how you can say they dont. Women are heavily obxtified in daily life and in TV shows.
There are many deeply systemic issues in Japan that are not being addressed or are actively being embraced in the younger crowd. Sexism like this doesnt just disappear over a single generation.
年轻的一代仍然对女性持有非常性别歧视的观点。我不知道你怎么能说他们没有性别歧视。女性在日常生活和电视节目中被严重物化。
在日本，有许多深层次的系统性问题没有得到解决，也没有受到年轻人的积极响应。这样的性别歧视不会在一代人的时间里消失。
Burntfruitypebble
I don’t want to discredit the article or sexism in Japan. But I lived there for a few months, and my female dormmates felt very safe there. They felt comfortable traveling alone, and going on night walks in the middle of the night.
On the other hand you do have the train cars that are female-only because the groping from men is so bad.
我不想抹黑这篇文章，也不想抹黑日本的性别歧视。但我在那里住了几个月，我的女室友在那里感觉很安全。他们觉得独自旅行和在半夜进行夜间散步都很舒服。
另一方面，也有女性专车，因为男性的骚扰实在是太糟糕了。
I don’t want to discredit the article or sexism in Japan. But I lived there for a few months, and my female dormmates felt very safe there. They felt comfortable traveling alone, and going on night walks in the middle of the night.
On the other hand you do have the train cars that are female-only because the groping from men is so bad.
我不想抹黑这篇文章，也不想抹黑日本的性别歧视。但我在那里住了几个月，我的女室友在那里感觉很安全。他们觉得独自旅行和在半夜进行夜间散步都很舒服。
另一方面，也有女性专车，因为男性的骚扰实在是太糟糕了。
ohilikeyou
Oh great!! So they felt safe from being sexually assaulted by men on the street at night at night...right?
Oh....ok it’s because it’s so commonplace it’s just easier to sexually assault a woman broad daylight on the train to work. To the point the women have to segregate themselves entirely on public transport during rush hour...got it.
哦,太棒了! ! 所以她们觉得晚上在街上不会被男人性侵犯，对吧?
哦……好吧，这是因为这太平常了，光天化日之下在上班的列车上更容易性侵女性。以至于在高峰时段，女性不得不在公共交通工具上完全隔离自己。明白了。
Oh great!! So they felt safe from being sexually assaulted by men on the street at night at night...right?
Oh....ok it’s because it’s so commonplace it’s just easier to sexually assault a woman broad daylight on the train to work. To the point the women have to segregate themselves entirely on public transport during rush hour...got it.
哦,太棒了! ! 所以她们觉得晚上在街上不会被男人性侵犯，对吧?
哦……好吧，这是因为这太平常了，光天化日之下在上班的列车上更容易性侵女性。以至于在高峰时段，女性不得不在公共交通工具上完全隔离自己。明白了。
John-McCue
How about men try that tactic?
男人们试试这种策略怎么样?
How about men try that tactic?
男人们试试这种策略怎么样?
condescendingcanuck
The governor of Tokyo is a woman. That's a pretty fucking important role.
Japan has a long way to go in terms of sexism. America also doesn't have free healthcare like the rest of the developed world. Give them time. A lot has changed on Japan, women are increasingly joining the workforce in more important positions.
东京都知事是一位女性，这是一个非常重要的角色。
日本在性别歧视方面还有很长的路要走，美国也没有像其他发达国家那样的免费医疗。
日本发生了很大的变化，越来越多的女性加入到工作中，担任更重要的职位。
The governor of Tokyo is a woman. That's a pretty fucking important role.
Japan has a long way to go in terms of sexism. America also doesn't have free healthcare like the rest of the developed world. Give them time. A lot has changed on Japan, women are increasingly joining the workforce in more important positions.
东京都知事是一位女性，这是一个非常重要的角色。
日本在性别歧视方面还有很长的路要走，美国也没有像其他发达国家那样的免费医疗。
日本发生了很大的变化，越来越多的女性加入到工作中，担任更重要的职位。
yukonwanderer
You can criticize while giving them time. Otherwise nothing changes. Imagine if the world was silent on apartheid in South Africa.
你可以在给他们时间的同时批评他们，否则不会有变化，想象一下，如果世界对南非的种族隔离制度保持沉默会怎么样。
You can criticize while giving them time. Otherwise nothing changes. Imagine if the world was silent on apartheid in South Africa.
你可以在给他们时间的同时批评他们，否则不会有变化，想象一下，如果世界对南非的种族隔离制度保持沉默会怎么样。
KnoFear
Yup, and Koike, like almost every major Japanese politician, is a war-crime denier and member of Nippon Kaigi. She is on record as supporting the whitewashing of history in Japanese textbooks.
没错，小池百合子就像几乎所有的日本主要政治家一样，否认战争罪，她是日本议会的成员。她公开支持日本教科书粉饰历史。
Yup, and Koike, like almost every major Japanese politician, is a war-crime denier and member of Nippon Kaigi. She is on record as supporting the whitewashing of history in Japanese textbooks.
没错，小池百合子就像几乎所有的日本主要政治家一样，否认战争罪，她是日本议会的成员。她公开支持日本教科书粉饰历史。
tway15q1
It sounds to me like the 'no talking' rule here is mainly due to the fact that they're observers, not participants. That's totally normal in such situations.
在我看来，这里的“不说话”规则主要是因为他们是观察者，而不是参与者。在这种情况下，这是很正常的。
It sounds to me like the 'no talking' rule here is mainly due to the fact that they're observers, not participants. That's totally normal in such situations.
在我看来，这里的“不说话”规则主要是因为他们是观察者，而不是参与者。在这种情况下，这是很正常的。
Howwasthatdoneagain
Well, I read a different article which indicated that men felt that women spoke too much in meetings. This arose when women were first allowed to participate and if one woman spoke then another felt she would need to speak as well and so on. It was a competitive thing.
This reminded me of something I read about the Netherlands and its first parliament. They had trouble getting things done because every member felt it was his right, no, his duty to speak up on whatever minor detail that came to mind. As a result nothing came to a conclusion.
我读过另一篇文章，上面说男人觉得女人在会议上说话太多，当女性第一次被允许参与时，如果一名女性发言，那么另一名女性就会觉得她也需要发言，以此类推，这是一件很有竞争性的事情。
这让我想起了我读到的关于荷兰和它的第一个议会的故事。他们很难把事情做好，因为每个成员都觉得他有权利，不，是他有责任说出脑海中出现的任何小细节，结果什么结论也没有得出。
Well, I read a different article which indicated that men felt that women spoke too much in meetings. This arose when women were first allowed to participate and if one woman spoke then another felt she would need to speak as well and so on. It was a competitive thing.
This reminded me of something I read about the Netherlands and its first parliament. They had trouble getting things done because every member felt it was his right, no, his duty to speak up on whatever minor detail that came to mind. As a result nothing came to a conclusion.
我读过另一篇文章，上面说男人觉得女人在会议上说话太多，当女性第一次被允许参与时，如果一名女性发言，那么另一名女性就会觉得她也需要发言，以此类推，这是一件很有竞争性的事情。
这让我想起了我读到的关于荷兰和它的第一个议会的故事。他们很难把事情做好，因为每个成员都觉得他有权利，不，是他有责任说出脑海中出现的任何小细节，结果什么结论也没有得出。
JayPizzazz
I'm not claiming to have read much of the article, but the first 2 paragraphs seemed to indicate it was because they were allowed as witnesses and not actually part of the group meeting. Gender didn't appear to be the issue.
我并不是说我读了这篇文章的很多内容，但前两段内容似乎表明，这是因为他们被允许作为观察人，而不是小组会议的一部分。性别似乎不是问题所在。
I'm not claiming to have read much of the article, but the first 2 paragraphs seemed to indicate it was because they were allowed as witnesses and not actually part of the group meeting. Gender didn't appear to be the issue.
我并不是说我读了这篇文章的很多内容，但前两段内容似乎表明，这是因为他们被允许作为观察人，而不是小组会议的一部分。性别似乎不是问题所在。
ForceStrong7877
Exactly. What a stupid clickbait article from the BBC.
完全正确，这是BBC的一篇愚蠢的标题诱饵文章。
Exactly. What a stupid clickbait article from the BBC.
完全正确，这是BBC的一篇愚蠢的标题诱饵文章。
Zubon102
You are expecting too much. This is Reddit and most people just read the headline and then get outraged.
你期望太高了。这是Reddit，大多数人看了标题就愤怒了。
You are expecting too much. This is Reddit and most people just read the headline and then get outraged.
你期望太高了。这是Reddit，大多数人看了标题就愤怒了。
Kramersblacklawyer
Love all the Americans in this thread making these broad sweeping(and frankly racist) accusations against Japanese culture based off hearsay, fucking porn and the words of one politician.
喜欢这个帖子里的所有美国人，他们基于道听途说、该死的色情和一个政客的话，对日本文化做出了这些广泛的(坦率地说是种族主义的)指控。
Love all the Americans in this thread making these broad sweeping(and frankly racist) accusations against Japanese culture based off hearsay, fucking porn and the words of one politician.
喜欢这个帖子里的所有美国人，他们基于道听途说、该死的色情和一个政客的话，对日本文化做出了这些广泛的(坦率地说是种族主义的)指控。
Exist50
One politician? Did you miss the whole "ruling party" bit?
一个政治家？你没听过"执政党"这个词吗?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
One politician? Did you miss the whole "ruling party" bit?
一个政治家？你没听过"执政党"这个词吗?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
yukonwanderer
Right, every time you bring up sexism in a different country you get accused of racism. Women's rights are human rights, not culturally based values.
是的，每次你在不同的国家提出性别歧视，你就会被指控种族歧视。妇女权利是人权，不是基于文化的价值观。
Right, every time you bring up sexism in a different country you get accused of racism. Women's rights are human rights, not culturally based values.
是的，每次你在不同的国家提出性别歧视，你就会被指控种族歧视。妇女权利是人权，不是基于文化的价值观。
nerdyknight74
The American people as a unit. What a phrase, if only it were true. America is not monolithic, and don’t forget that he won with a minority of the votes.
美国人民作为一个整体，多好的一句话，如果这是真的就好了。美国不是铁板一块的，别忘了他只赢得了少数选票。
The American people as a unit. What a phrase, if only it were true. America is not monolithic, and don’t forget that he won with a minority of the votes.
美国人民作为一个整体，多好的一句话，如果这是真的就好了。美国不是铁板一块的，别忘了他只赢得了少数选票。
Toddler_dictator
This site is filled with Americans and their ego is puke worthy
这个网站上全是美国人，他们的自负令人作呕
This site is filled with Americans and their ego is puke worthy
这个网站上全是美国人，他们的自负令人作呕
Jontenn
didn't some old olympic geezer from japan say the exact same thing not too long ago? And then his explanation was that he didn't know women because he frankly didn't spend much time around them?
不久前，不是有个来自日本的奥运老家伙也说过同样的话吗? 然后他的解释是，他不了解女人，因为坦白地说，他没有花太多时间和她们在一起?
didn't some old olympic geezer from japan say the exact same thing not too long ago? And then his explanation was that he didn't know women because he frankly didn't spend much time around them?
不久前，不是有个来自日本的奥运老家伙也说过同样的话吗? 然后他的解释是，他不了解女人，因为坦白地说，他没有花太多时间和她们在一起?
StratosAlpha
What???? Is this a heading from like 200 years ago or something? I be damned if I ever said that to my team, I like place people in charge if they know their stuff, gender is not important at all.
什么? ?这是200年前的标题吗?如果我曾经对我的团队说过这句话，我就会被诅咒，如果他们知道自己的工作，我就会让他们负责，性别根本不重要。
What???? Is this a heading from like 200 years ago or something? I be damned if I ever said that to my team, I like place people in charge if they know their stuff, gender is not important at all.
什么? ?这是200年前的标题吗?如果我曾经对我的团队说过这句话，我就会被诅咒，如果他们知道自己的工作，我就会让他们负责，性别根本不重要。
ghayyal
Japan is such a backward society.
日本是一个如此落后的社会。
Japan is such a backward society.
日本是一个如此落后的社会。
zeyu12
Now you realized? I don't know why but Japan is still stuck in the last century for some reason. I know a lot of people like Tokyo but I find that place very depressing and stress-inducing.
现在你意识到吗?我不知道为什么，但日本仍然被困在上个世纪。我知道很多人喜欢东京，但我发现那个地方非常令人沮丧并且让人感到压力很大。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Now you realized? I don't know why but Japan is still stuck in the last century for some reason. I know a lot of people like Tokyo but I find that place very depressing and stress-inducing.
现在你意识到吗?我不知道为什么，但日本仍然被困在上个世纪。我知道很多人喜欢东京，但我发现那个地方非常令人沮丧并且让人感到压力很大。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
ghayyal
Truth hurts for the people who down voted.
真相会伤害那些投了反对票的人。
Truth hurts for the people who down voted.
真相会伤害那些投了反对票的人。
Zubon102
As much as it angers me to see such open discrimination in Japan. This headline makes this particular case look much worse than it is.
The women referred to in this article are outside observers that were brought in as a (fairly ineffective) gesture. They are not board members so it kind of makes sense that they are not allowed to talk or have any say in decision-making.
You could actually frx this as them taking initiative to include more women in politics. It's a good gesture and I hope we see more efforts to improve equality, even if they are just trivial or token gestures.
尽管看到日本如此公开的歧视，这让我很愤怒。但这个标题让这个事件看起来比实际情况要糟糕得多。
本文中提到的女性都是局外人，她们被带进来只是一种(相当无效的)姿态。他们不是董事会成员，所以他们不被允许在决策中发言或有任何发言权，这是有道理的。
你可以把这定义为他们主动让更多的女性参与政治。这是一个很好的姿态，我希望我们能看到更多改善平等的努力，即使它们只是微不足道的或象征性的姿态。
As much as it angers me to see such open discrimination in Japan. This headline makes this particular case look much worse than it is.
The women referred to in this article are outside observers that were brought in as a (fairly ineffective) gesture. They are not board members so it kind of makes sense that they are not allowed to talk or have any say in decision-making.
You could actually frx this as them taking initiative to include more women in politics. It's a good gesture and I hope we see more efforts to improve equality, even if they are just trivial or token gestures.
尽管看到日本如此公开的歧视，这让我很愤怒。但这个标题让这个事件看起来比实际情况要糟糕得多。
本文中提到的女性都是局外人，她们被带进来只是一种(相当无效的)姿态。他们不是董事会成员，所以他们不被允许在决策中发言或有任何发言权，这是有道理的。
你可以把这定义为他们主动让更多的女性参与政治。这是一个很好的姿态，我希望我们能看到更多改善平等的努力，即使它们只是微不足道的或象征性的姿态。
adymck11
Most Japanese, male and female, perpetuate the myth that woman don’t have the intelligence to participate. Woman play the demure giggly girl to a tee. I think after marriage this changes dramatically. Japanese woman are great organizers and managers. Japan misses out on at least 30-40% of the country’s potential
It is changing though... albeit slowly. The west isn’t perfect by any means, but I figure Japan is about 50 years behind us
大多数日本人，无论男女，都认为女人没有智慧和能力参与进来。女人惟妙惟肖地扮演矜持傻笑的女孩。我认为结婚后这种情况会发生巨大的变化。日本女性是伟大的组织者和管理者。日本至少失去了该国30-40%的潜力。
但这种情况正在改变……尽管速度比较缓慢。无论如何，西方并不完美，但我认为日本比我们落后了50年
Most Japanese, male and female, perpetuate the myth that woman don’t have the intelligence to participate. Woman play the demure giggly girl to a tee. I think after marriage this changes dramatically. Japanese woman are great organizers and managers. Japan misses out on at least 30-40% of the country’s potential
It is changing though... albeit slowly. The west isn’t perfect by any means, but I figure Japan is about 50 years behind us
大多数日本人，无论男女，都认为女人没有智慧和能力参与进来。女人惟妙惟肖地扮演矜持傻笑的女孩。我认为结婚后这种情况会发生巨大的变化。日本女性是伟大的组织者和管理者。日本至少失去了该国30-40%的潜力。
但这种情况正在改变……尽管速度比较缓慢。无论如何，西方并不完美，但我认为日本比我们落后了50年
YsoL8
Before ww2 the west had feminist movements in progress and scoring early victories, Japan was essentially a traditional feudal society with modern factories and a government actively looking to the past. Theres plenty of reason they are somewhat behind the rest of the modern west.
在第二次世界大战之前，西方有女权运动的进步并取得早期的胜利，日本本质上是一个传统的封建社会，有现代工厂和一个积极回顾过去的政府。他们落后于其他现代西方国家的原因有很多。
Before ww2 the west had feminist movements in progress and scoring early victories, Japan was essentially a traditional feudal society with modern factories and a government actively looking to the past. Theres plenty of reason they are somewhat behind the rest of the modern west.
在第二次世界大战之前，西方有女权运动的进步并取得早期的胜利，日本本质上是一个传统的封建社会，有现代工厂和一个积极回顾过去的政府。他们落后于其他现代西方国家的原因有很多。
caughtinchaos
Women are meant to be seen and not heard seems to be a national policy in Japan. It ranks 121 on a list of 153 countries on the World Economic Forum's 2020 Global Gender Gap Index which is pretty shocking for a developed first world nation.
女性应该被看到而不是被听到，这似乎是日本的一项国家政策。在世界经济论坛发布的2020年全球性别差异指数，日本在153个国家中排名第121位，这对于一个发达的第一世界国家来说相当令人震惊。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Women are meant to be seen and not heard seems to be a national policy in Japan. It ranks 121 on a list of 153 countries on the World Economic Forum's 2020 Global Gender Gap Index which is pretty shocking for a developed first world nation.
女性应该被看到而不是被听到，这似乎是日本的一项国家政策。在世界经济论坛发布的2020年全球性别差异指数，日本在153个国家中排名第121位，这对于一个发达的第一世界国家来说相当令人震惊。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
jaggedcanyon69
How bad is sexism in Japan?
日本的性别歧视有多严重?
How bad is sexism in Japan?
日本的性别歧视有多严重?
Thehardcockbender
Their sexism would beat the shit out of your sexism. How bad is your sexism?
他们的性别歧视会把你的性别歧视打得屁滚尿流，你的性别歧视有多严重?
Their sexism would beat the shit out of your sexism. How bad is your sexism?
他们的性别歧视会把你的性别歧视打得屁滚尿流，你的性别歧视有多严重?
midnight_reborn
Hey Japan, so many of your awesome anime shows and manga revolve around women, often making them main characters with strong personalities and backgrounds. So what's with the misogamy in government?
嘿，日本，你们有那么多优秀的动漫节目和漫画都围绕着女性展开，经常把她们塑造成具有鲜明个性和背景的主角。那么政府里的厌女症是怎么回事?
Hey Japan, so many of your awesome anime shows and manga revolve around women, often making them main characters with strong personalities and backgrounds. So what's with the misogamy in government?
嘿，日本，你们有那么多优秀的动漫节目和漫画都围绕着女性展开，经常把她们塑造成具有鲜明个性和背景的主角。那么政府里的厌女症是怎么回事?
steezydjr
We have a women Vice President in the USA. What does Japan have? Women can now make eye contact in the year 2021.
在美国我们有一位女副总统，日本有什么?女性现在可以在2021年进行眼神交流。
We have a women Vice President in the USA. What does Japan have? Women can now make eye contact in the year 2021.
在美国我们有一位女副总统，日本有什么?女性现在可以在2021年进行眼神交流。
mailserviceclient
She’s incumbent for less than a month. You had a misogynistic POTUS just until last month. What does that say about America then?
她的任期不到一个月。就在上个月，你的总统还是个厌恶女性的人。这对美国来说意味着什么呢?
She’s incumbent for less than a month. You had a misogynistic POTUS just until last month. What does that say about America then?
她的任期不到一个月。就在上个月，你的总统还是个厌恶女性的人。这对美国来说意味着什么呢?
welfrkid
almost as if the people writing Manga and the ones in government are different people
就好像漫画作者和政府官员是不同的人一样
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
almost as if the people writing Manga and the ones in government are different people
就好像漫画作者和政府官员是不同的人一样
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
midnight_reborn
relatable from a US standpoint, too...
从美国的角度来看也是可以理解的……
relatable from a US standpoint, too...
从美国的角度来看也是可以理解的……
iampuh
it would not have been an issue of the government only. It`s their whole society. My dream is also to travel to Japan someday, but let's be real here and not sugarcoat things. Racism and misogyny are a part of Japan
这不只是政府的问题，这是他们的整个社会的问题。我的梦想也是有一天能去日本旅游，但我们要现实一点，不要粉饰事实。种族主义和厌女症是日本的一部分
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
it would not have been an issue of the government only. It`s their whole society. My dream is also to travel to Japan someday, but let's be real here and not sugarcoat things. Racism and misogyny are a part of Japan
这不只是政府的问题，这是他们的整个社会的问题。我的梦想也是有一天能去日本旅游，但我们要现实一点，不要粉饰事实。种族主义和厌女症是日本的一部分
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
midnight_reborn
It's part of the US, too. But it's not all of the US, and I'm sure it's not all of Japan. We need to give our societies a chance to become better. I think that starts by calling out the bad shit, owning up to it, and striving to replace it with holding people's character and merit in higher regard than the color of their skin, gender, or lineage.
它也是美国的一部分，但这不是美国的全部，我确定，这也不是日本的全部。我们需要给我们的社会一个变得更好的机会。我认为，首先要大声疾呼那些糟糕的事情，承认它们，并努力将它们（看重肤色、性别或血统）替换成更看重人们的性格和优点。
It's part of the US, too. But it's not all of the US, and I'm sure it's not all of Japan. We need to give our societies a chance to become better. I think that starts by calling out the bad shit, owning up to it, and striving to replace it with holding people's character and merit in higher regard than the color of their skin, gender, or lineage.
它也是美国的一部分，但这不是美国的全部，我确定，这也不是日本的全部。我们需要给我们的社会一个变得更好的机会。我认为，首先要大声疾呼那些糟糕的事情，承认它们，并努力将它们（看重肤色、性别或血统）替换成更看重人们的性格和优点。
Restivethought
Theres an equal amount or more anime about how women are just eye candy for the main protagonist.
同样多甚至更多的动漫都在讲述女性如何只是主角的养眼花瓶。
Theres an equal amount or more anime about how women are just eye candy for the main protagonist.
同样多甚至更多的动漫都在讲述女性如何只是主角的养眼花瓶。
midnight_reborn
yeah I hate those anime. Their characters get old fast.
是的，我讨厌那些动漫。他们的角色老得很快。
yeah I hate those anime. Their characters get old fast.
是的，我讨厌那些动漫。他们的角色老得很快。
Colydon
I mean alot of that content is pretty sexist tbf. I think it is getting better as the mediums popularity increases though. Always depends on the author. Lot of great female mangakas.
我的意思是，很多内容都带有很大的性别歧视，我认为随着媒体的普及，情况会越来越好。这总是取决于漫画作者，很多伟大的女漫画家。
I mean alot of that content is pretty sexist tbf. I think it is getting better as the mediums popularity increases though. Always depends on the author. Lot of great female mangakas.
我的意思是，很多内容都带有很大的性别歧视，我认为随着媒体的普及，情况会越来越好。这总是取决于漫画作者，很多伟大的女漫画家。
Asuka-02-
It's worth noting that there is a STRONG generational divide here. Japanese people about 40 or under are very progressive and truly have no issues with women.
Old Japanese dudes though? Sexist as fuck.
There is an entire concept among younger Japanese men, I can't remember the name, that they relate to women more than they do to men. Current Japanese society is so agist, young people of any gender have so little say, that young men especially relate to women more than men as they have seen their elder males look down on them and they relate to that idea. So anime and games from Japan often have strong female protagonists because it's actually easier for younger men to put themselves in their shoes - they relate to them more just as much as they gawk at them.
Super headstrong and powerful female characters who are the shot callers. Who doesn't want to be a hot badass?
Obviously there are plenty of harem anime and those are a whole other ballgame, but it's worth noting that in anime in general, outside of the visual focus on their attractiveness, is actually generally extremely respectful of women. Sure it might linger on a thigh shot a bit here and there, and a boob might jiggle, but I can't think of any anime where female characters are mistreated or looked down upon in any serious manner.
值得注意的是，这里存在着强烈的代沟。大约40岁或40岁以下的日本人是非常进步的，真的对女性没有歧视问题。
不过老日本人，存在性别歧视。
在年轻的日本男性中有一种完整的概念，我不记得这个概念的名字了，他们与女性的联系多于与男性的联系。现在的日本社会是很排外的，任何性别的年轻人都很少有发言权，比起男性，年轻男性更喜欢女性，因为他们看到年长的男性看不起他们，所以他们会产生这种想法。所以日本的动画和游戏通常都是强势的女性主角，因为年轻男性更容易站在女性的角度思考问题——他们与女性的关系更密切，就像他们盯着女性发呆一样。
超级任性和强大的女性角色，她们是发号施令的人。谁不想成为一个性感的坏蛋呢?
显然，有很多后宫动画，呈现的是另一种情况，但值得注意的是，在一般的动漫中，除了视觉上关注她们的魅力，实际上通常都是非常尊重女性的。当然，它的镜头可能会在大腿上徘徊，乳房可能会抖动，但我想不出有哪部动漫中女性角色受到虐待或受到任何严重的歧视。
It's worth noting that there is a STRONG generational divide here. Japanese people about 40 or under are very progressive and truly have no issues with women.
Old Japanese dudes though? Sexist as fuck.
There is an entire concept among younger Japanese men, I can't remember the name, that they relate to women more than they do to men. Current Japanese society is so agist, young people of any gender have so little say, that young men especially relate to women more than men as they have seen their elder males look down on them and they relate to that idea. So anime and games from Japan often have strong female protagonists because it's actually easier for younger men to put themselves in their shoes - they relate to them more just as much as they gawk at them.
Super headstrong and powerful female characters who are the shot callers. Who doesn't want to be a hot badass?
Obviously there are plenty of harem anime and those are a whole other ballgame, but it's worth noting that in anime in general, outside of the visual focus on their attractiveness, is actually generally extremely respectful of women. Sure it might linger on a thigh shot a bit here and there, and a boob might jiggle, but I can't think of any anime where female characters are mistreated or looked down upon in any serious manner.
值得注意的是，这里存在着强烈的代沟。大约40岁或40岁以下的日本人是非常进步的，真的对女性没有歧视问题。
不过老日本人，存在性别歧视。
在年轻的日本男性中有一种完整的概念，我不记得这个概念的名字了，他们与女性的联系多于与男性的联系。现在的日本社会是很排外的，任何性别的年轻人都很少有发言权，比起男性，年轻男性更喜欢女性，因为他们看到年长的男性看不起他们，所以他们会产生这种想法。所以日本的动画和游戏通常都是强势的女性主角，因为年轻男性更容易站在女性的角度思考问题——他们与女性的关系更密切，就像他们盯着女性发呆一样。
超级任性和强大的女性角色，她们是发号施令的人。谁不想成为一个性感的坏蛋呢?
显然，有很多后宫动画，呈现的是另一种情况，但值得注意的是，在一般的动漫中，除了视觉上关注她们的魅力，实际上通常都是非常尊重女性的。当然，它的镜头可能会在大腿上徘徊，乳房可能会抖动，但我想不出有哪部动漫中女性角色受到虐待或受到任何严重的歧视。
Accomplished_Duty_40
Should be other way around...women talk and men look
应该是相反的……女人说话，男人看
Should be other way around...women talk and men look
应该是相反的……女人说话，男人看
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