“缴械投降，我选中国货！”大牌信仰还是实用主义，红迪网友热议国产鼠标崛起与外设行业变革
正文翻译
claaudius
Mate, they're all made in the same factory.
兄弟，这些东西全都是同一家工厂造的。
low0nink
Yes, I came to that conclusion when I needed to buy a better mouse and didn't want to spend 150!.
没错，我想买个好点的鼠标又不想花150刀的时候，就得出这个结论了。
Hour_Interest_5488
Just get a cheap Logitech mouse for 5 eur
直接买个罗技便宜款就行，5欧元那种。
Gloomy_River
welcome to earth
欢迎来到地球。
TheRealWitblitz
China #1
中国第一。
Optimal_Whiner
Exactly. But you're cutting out the middleman.
You know Fanatics? That's all they are. Just middlemen. They don't actually do much. The manufacture does the designs, the production and then another team does marketing and so on and so forth. Fanatics... They just collect money in the middle. You could easily cut them out. This is true for a lot of stuff in the garment industry and many others too.
没错。而且你这是直接跳过中间商了。
知道Fanatics吗？他们就只是中间商，实际啥也不干。设计、生产都是工厂做的，另一帮人做营销。Fanatics就只在中间收钱。很多服装行业和其他行业都这样。
imtweakyz
I also think/feel that the shapes of those smaller asian companys are way better than those razer/logitech shapes
I feel like razer logitech etc just tries to make the shape appealing for everyone and i think thats not good Its a "safe" shape but not very good A bit of everything but nothing "full" If you know what i mean [english is not my first language]
我也觉得那些亚洲小牌子的鼠标造型比雷蛇、罗技舒服多了。
感觉雷蛇罗技就是想做个“谁都能用”的安全造型，但反而不怎么好用。啥都沾一点，但没一项做到极致。你们懂我意思吧，英语不是我母语。
low0nink
True, i like the shape I think they are like “open source” shapes All Chinese brands uses the same
确实，我也喜欢那些造型。感觉都是“开源模具”，所有中国牌子都在用同款。
yaro_b
I’ve read so many comments like this, especially about Logitech… until they released X2 Superstrike.
我看过太多这种评论了，尤其是说罗技的……直到他们出了X2 Super Strike。
cvwilhelm_
Some Chinese company will get their hands on the same tech and sell it for less than half the price.
反正中国厂商迟早会拿到同款技术，然后半价不到卖给你。
low0nink
Its a mater of days to Chinese industry’s copy that tech 10x cheaper I bet the China are already doing it
我赌用不了几天，中国厂商就会把这技术抄过去，卖1/10的价钱。我怀疑他们已经在搞了。
claaudiusMate, they're all made in the same factory.
兄弟，这些东西全都是同一家工厂造的。
low0nink
Yes, I came to that conclusion when I needed to buy a better mouse and didn't want to spend 150!.
没错，我想买个好点的鼠标又不想花150刀的时候，就得出这个结论了。
Hour_Interest_5488
Just get a cheap Logitech mouse for 5 eur
直接买个罗技便宜款就行，5欧元那种。
Gloomy_River
welcome to earth
欢迎来到地球。
TheRealWitblitz
China #1
中国第一。
Optimal_Whiner
Exactly. But you're cutting out the middleman.
You know Fanatics? That's all they are. Just middlemen. They don't actually do much. The manufacture does the designs, the production and then another team does marketing and so on and so forth. Fanatics... They just collect money in the middle. You could easily cut them out. This is true for a lot of stuff in the garment industry and many others too.
没错。而且你这是直接跳过中间商了。
知道Fanatics吗？他们就只是中间商，实际啥也不干。设计、生产都是工厂做的，另一帮人做营销。Fanatics就只在中间收钱。很多服装行业和其他行业都这样。
imtweakyz
I also think/feel that the shapes of those smaller asian companys are way better than those razer/logitech shapes
I feel like razer logitech etc just tries to make the shape appealing for everyone and i think thats not good Its a "safe" shape but not very good A bit of everything but nothing "full" If you know what i mean [english is not my first language]
我也觉得那些亚洲小牌子的鼠标造型比雷蛇、罗技舒服多了。
感觉雷蛇罗技就是想做个“谁都能用”的安全造型，但反而不怎么好用。啥都沾一点，但没一项做到极致。你们懂我意思吧，英语不是我母语。
low0nink
True, i like the shape I think they are like “open source” shapes All Chinese brands uses the same
确实，我也喜欢那些造型。感觉都是“开源模具”，所有中国牌子都在用同款。
yaro_b
I’ve read so many comments like this, especially about Logitech… until they released X2 Superstrike.
我看过太多这种评论了，尤其是说罗技的……直到他们出了X2 Super Strike。
cvwilhelm_
Some Chinese company will get their hands on the same tech and sell it for less than half the price.
反正中国厂商迟早会拿到同款技术，然后半价不到卖给你。
low0nink
Its a mater of days to Chinese industry’s copy that tech 10x cheaper I bet the China are already doing it
我赌用不了几天，中国厂商就会把这技术抄过去，卖1/10的价钱。我怀疑他们已经在搞了。
评论翻译
Disturbed2468
Dodging the strike down of the rumors already I presume?
Still, maybe, but depending on if the tech is patented or not, I'm not going to be holding my breath, and considering I've been burned before by one of said companies with the product once and the customer support or lack thereof second (starts with an A), I have zero faith or trust in them with my money no matter how much or little it costs.
你这是直接无视辟谣是吧？
就算真会，也要看技术有没有专利，我不抱期待。而且我之前被某家（A开头的）厂商坑过一次，产品烂、售后更烂，所以我不管多便宜都不会再信他们。
yaro_b
Lol, that’s a clueless comment and an eternal belief in the power of stealing of intellectual property. Half-decent Chinese mice cost 50-70, which is 2-2.5x less than their big brand targets. You have to be absolutely clueless to claim that Superstrike clone will cost 1/10 of 180. If they manage to clone it at all. Chinese manufactures are not charity orgs, they will also try to take advantage of this hype technology and will mark up the prices. Get ready to pay 80-90 for a half-assed clones with incomplete functionality and messed up weight balance.
笑死，这评论也太无知了，还天天迷信“偷知识产权”。稍微像样点的国产鼠标也就50–70，比大牌便宜2–2.5倍。
你要真无知到觉得Super Strike山寨版能卖180的1/10，那真没话说。就算他们真能抄出来，国产厂商也不是慈善家，照样会借着新技术涨价。准备好花80–90买个功能残缺、配重稀烂的半成品山寨版吧。
bas5eb
Not only that, C companies depending on what it is are heavily subsidized. The goal is to put the original company out of business and then they jack up prices to what they were being sold for by the company they stole the intellectual property from. They've been doing this for decades. It's one of the reasons the whole trade war started. They use the west courts to protect themselves yet dont follow thru on their end. Its nearly impossible to sue them in C for theft or copying a product because well the government's in on it.
不止如此，很多C企业还有巨额补贴。目的就是把原版公司搞垮，然后再涨回原价。他们几十年都这么干，这也是贸易战的原因之一。他们用西方法律保护自己，却不遵守规则。在C起诉抄袭基本不可能，因为官方都掺和在里面。
yaro_b
Exactly. Car manufacturers feel it today. The last stand of industrial power in Europe… and Japan too, probably.
没错。现在汽车厂商已经感受到了。欧洲工业最后的阵地……日本估计也一样。
Disturbed2468
If you're Chinese and young you can actually get insanely good low-interest loans from the Chinese government via the banks (which are either partially or fully state-owned and state-regulated) to start a business in the tech field, and can usually have low to zero interest for a few years at the start and get bonuses for it. It's actually why the Chi-Fi scene is so cutthroat both within China and abroad, as some companies have actually made some EXTREMELY good products, but longeitivity is yet to be seen since so many companies are so new, and customer support is very dubious depending on the brand you go for.
在中国，年轻人创业可以拿到超低息贷款，银行都是国有或半国有的，开头几年基本零息，还有补贴。这也是国内HiFi圈卷得这么狠的原因，很多产品确实做得极好，但品牌太新，寿命还不清楚，售后也看牌子。
paulvincent07
Razer Viper Mini V3 Wired 8khz pls
Even big brands source their materials in China everything is made in China
求个雷蛇毒蝰迷你V3有线8kHz。
其实大牌也都是在中国采购零件，所有东西都是中国制造。
cha0ss0ldier
With the big brands you’re also paying for the R&D costs that go into these mice, you’re paying for a real warranty, functional software, and the ability to walk into a brick and mortar store and buy the mouse. R&D is a big chunk of the cost and it’s easy to cut prices when you avoid that by cloning/using OEM shapes.
I’m not hating on Chinese mice, they are great for the market and a vast majority of people should not be spending 150+ on a mouse, but there are valid reasons the big names are more expensive. Do the big brands slap some extra on top of that as well? Sure. Best to wait for sales on the big brands, they always end up at least 30% off after a while.
你买大牌，买的是研发成本、真正的保修、能用的软件，还有线下实体店能买到。研发占成本大头，抄模具、用公模就能便宜很正常。我不是黑国产鼠标，它们对市场很好，大多数人也根本不该花150多买鼠标，但大牌贵是有合理原因的。当然大牌也会加价，等打折入最香。
nectar886
Agree and disagree, the core technology or fundamental tech were not developed by companies! The tech there, mostly, were invented by scientists in universities long before it hits the industry. The industry may need to spend resources on implementing those scientific breakthroughs into their specific products only
部分同意部分不同意。核心基础技术都不是厂商研发的！大多是大学科学家早就搞出来的，行业只是把科研成果落地到产品里而已。
low0nink
For those who don't mind paying the prices, there's no problem. When I bought it, I couldn't resist trying it out, and I don't regret it.
对不介意价钱的人来说没啥问题。我当时买了也没忍住试了下，不后悔。
mattiasso
Most if not all brands (minus Dyson) spend individually more money on Marketing or Shareholder compensations than R&D
除了戴森，大多数品牌花在营销或股东分红上的钱都比研发多。
low0nink
True XD
真实，哈哈。
chinomaster182
I felt like you why i bought an atk mouse. I couldn't believe they sold me a deathadder for 30 dollars or so.
I felt like such a dumbass gifting all that money to razer to give them the privilege of installing their garbage spyware on my machine.
我当初买ATK鼠标也是这心态。30美元左右就能买到炼狱蝰蛇版型，我简直觉得以前给雷蛇送钱是纯纯大冤种，还让他们在我电脑装垃圾间谍软件。
Raytheon-6
ViperV3Pro/EC2-CW/XM2we/DAv3Pro/ViperV2Pro/G502x/GPX/MadG/X1Pro
Welcome to the club!
欢迎加入组织！
iShadowLTu
I've had Razer/Logitech mice for like the past 15 if not 20 years now. About a month ago I also decided to go Chinese. Got the MCHOSE L7 and couldn't be happier. Never going back to paying for the logos again.
过去15–20年我一直用雷蛇、罗技。大概一个月前我也转国产了，买了迈从L7，巨满意，再也不会为了logo交智商税。
ColdClassic7516
I’m not saying this just to disagree with you. Yeah some of them use the same chip and sensor, but not every brands.
I had a dongle problem once and there was literally no replacement. No replacement dongle, no replacement chip, nothing. I was basically cooked and had to use it wired.
warranty is a big one. If you buy a 50 mouse or headset and it breaks, what do you do? Buy another 50 one? Because this usually happens and if it does you’re f. That can easily end up costing more.
我不是故意抬杠。确实有些用同款芯片传感器，但不是所有品牌都这样。
我之前接收器坏过，根本没配件换，没接收器、没芯片替换，基本就废了，只能插线用。
保修很重要。你买个50块的鼠标坏了怎么办？再买一个？那很容易越花越多。
This doesn’t apply to everyone, but in some countries retailers don’t really care once the product breaks, even if you throw tantrum about this and that they could easily void your warranty. If warranty is a hassle or basically nonexistent, you’re kinda cooked and just end up buying another one.So if you have the money, I’d still say going with more known brands can be safer, at least sometimes. You’re not just paying for the hardware but also the support if something goes wrong or replacement part at the very least
And software matters too for some products. A lot of people like tweaking settings and profiles, and cheaper brands don’t always do a great job there
有些国家的零售商根本不管，闹也没用，直接拒保。
所以有钱的话我还是建议买靠谱点的牌子，至少有时候更稳。你买的不只是硬件，还有出问题时的支持，最起码能换配件。
而且软件对有些人也很重要，很多人喜欢调设置、改配置，便宜牌子软件普遍做得烂。
BetterProphet5585
The brand you pay is R&D, QC, support and software not the product itself.
The product is like 20 plastic and a couple of clicks and sensors.
Chinese brands hardly have any R&D, QC, support and good software (and I see you, slow down buddy, I didn't say all, I said hardly).
你为品牌付费，付的是研发、品控、售后、软件，不是产品本身。
产品就是20块钱的塑料加几个按键传感器。
国产厂商基本没啥研发、品控、售后、好用的软件（我没说全部，是普遍情况）。
I've had a Beast X Max, Attack Shark, Logitech, Gravastar and many others. Guess who has the best software.
Black sheep was the Beast X where their support amazed me, faster and really good. For everything else, software sucked ass so bad it bugged the mouse, you get Chinese parts, untranslated, slow, buggy mess. You don't want that. You will sweat while doing firmware upxes, possibly get spywares and bad code.
我用过Beast X Max、Attack Shark、罗技、 Gravastar等等。你猜谁软件最好？
唯一例外是Beast X，售后惊到我了，很快又好。其他的软件都烂得一批，中文机翻、卡顿、bug。更固件都提心吊胆，还可能有间谍软件、垃圾代码。
Chinese brands
often copy the design and research done by the west and then try to shove it in a random product. Again, not always but very often. This happens on cars, phones, clothes, tech.If you like the overall experience and substance, go west.
If you just want the product, China.
edit: never really got something as good for a third of the price, maybe half discounted, but a lot of times the prices are pretty comparable
国产经常抄西方设计和研发，然后随便塞个壳子里。不是全部，但很常见。汽车、手机、衣服、科技产品都这样。
你想要整体体验和质感，选西方。
你只想要能用的产品，选中国。
补充：我从没见过三分之一价钱能做到一样好的，最多半价，很多时候价钱其实差不多。
Brief_Insurance8637
im fine with a Chinese mouse but most of them rip off shells from other companies. i dont care if the big companies make me overpay for their mouse since im blessed to be in a position where i can pay for it + i dont want to support who regularizes ripping off designs. if its their original design then sure, but some of them are just exactly the same.
我用国产鼠标没问题，但它们大多数都抄别人的外壳。我不在乎大牌溢价，因为我有这个条件，而且我不想支持那些靠抄袭设计牟利的品牌。如果是原创设计我肯定支持，但有些简直一模一样。
TradeSekrat
Exactly... I also don't think is fair to throw smaller enthusiasts level companies like say Lamzu etc at 50 or less employees in with Razor, Logitech or even Pulsar. I don't have problem paying for a Lamzu product. Where as Logitech move more branded product in a week than a small enthusiasts company will in a year. Even Pulsar is fine as they keep pushing design ideas.
That all innovation stops if everyone just buys from clone companies with barely even a website. Just straight cutting corners on someone else's design to get the price down.
没错……我也觉得把Lamzu这种只有几十人的小厂，和雷蛇、罗技甚至Pulsar放一起骂不太公平。我愿意为Lamzu花钱。罗技一周卖的量，比小厂一年还多。就算是Pulsar也还行，他们一直在做设计创新。
如果所有人都去买连官网都懒得做的山寨货，创新就彻底停了。纯粹抄别人设计、偷工减料来降价。
fiddlesticks_irl
I think that Razer and Logitech have such a chokehold on the non-enthusiast population that revenue will never be a problem for them. Most pros are still using GPXs/Vipers and the average consumer is walking into a Best Buy trying to get any "gaming keyboard / mouse" that does the job. A friend used to work at a Razer store and it surprised me how many people just walk in willing to drop a blank amount of cash on gaming peripherals and walk out.
Brand recognition is huge and I wouldn't be surprised if 95% of peripheral buyers aren't interested in looking beyond Razer, Logitech, SteelSeries, Corsair, etc.
我觉得雷蛇、罗技对普通玩家的垄断太强了，收入根本不是问题。大部分职业选手还在用 GPX、毒蝰，普通消费者进百思买就随便买个能用的游戏键鼠。我朋友以前在雷蛇门店工作，很多人直接进店闭眼买高端外设，我都看傻了。
品牌认知度太重要了，我丝毫不意外 95% 的人只认雷蛇、罗技、赛睿、美商海盗船这些。
DarkReaper969
VXE R1 Pro Max
I bought the same mouse a few months back, not a single negative thing to say about it! Its really worth the price and not having to have an extra programm on my pc and running? Its a blessing. (Looking at you Razer ESPECIALLY YOU). Also i havent had any issues with the software, and i feel like its way better made then most from "premium" brands even!
几个月前买的，完全挑不出毛病！绝对值这个价，还不用在电脑里多装一个软件？简直福音。（说的就是你雷蛇，尤其是你）。而且我用软件也没出问题，感觉做工比很多“高端”大牌还好！
confusingadult
yeah with no proper customer service, no warranty, shitty software. questionable QC. i pay more for convenient. and also i only buy 1 mouse for 3 years so its not that expensive.
是啊，没有靠谱售后、没有保修、垃圾软件、品控迷。我多花钱买的是方便。而且我一只鼠标用3年，其实也不算贵。
xak47d
Scyrox V8 - MCHOSE L7 Pro
I'd rather do it on a 50 dollar mouse than a 150 one
我宁愿在50刀的鼠标上折腾，也不在150刀的上面搞。
grapher4566
It's a bit ironic to be talking about manually changing switches on name brand mice when the parent comment is talking about buying name brand mice specifically for the convenience no?
有点讽刺啊，楼上刚说买大牌就是图省事，结果在这聊手动换微动。
yaro_b
Aren’t we talking about post-warranty issues? Cheap junk will likely not live that long. Or will look ass, because all Chinese brands use cheap plastic which starts yellowing almost immediately. Fixing a quality product is >> than just buying cheap junk again. It’s also better for the rock we all live on.
我们不是在说保外维修吗？便宜货大概率活不到那时候，或者外观烂得一批。所有国产牌子都用廉价塑料，几乎马上就发黄。修复优质产品 >> 再买一次便宜垃圾。对地球也更友好。
KutteKrabber
I bought the ATK X1 Ultra and one spare, the Ultimate.
-Could those points be true? Sure. Did I actually need them? No.
-Bad customer service? Didn't matter, the mouse works perfectly.
-No warranty? Also irrelevant, the mouse works perfectly.
-Shitty software? Not really. It is web based and works perfectly.
-Questionable QC? Maybe, but that is the same with most top brands. Luck of the draw.
我买了ATK X1 Ultra，还备了一只Ultimate。
你说的那些问题可能存在吗？有可能。但我真的需要吗？不需要。
售后差？无所谓，鼠标完美运行。
没保修？也无所谓，鼠标完美运行。
软件烂？并没有，网页版用着很稳。
品控迷？也许吧，但大部分顶级品牌也一样，看运气。
low0nink
That’s it
就这道理。
Wooden_Performance_9
Yeah it’s real easy with a 40 mouse with hotswap
是啊，40块的鼠标支持热插拔，换起来超简单
marsd
A gpro or vv3p is never going to be 30 unboxed brand new even if they're 10 years old
GPro或者VV3P就算放10年，也不可能全新30刀。
yaro_b
If you want latest and greatest - think about how you could start earning more.
想要最新最好的，就想想怎么多赚点钱。
Prosciuttolo
You apologize to the big brands? Do you actually think the brands are your friends or care about you? They just care about your wallet.
你还给大牌道歉呢？你真以为这些品牌把你当朋友？他们只在乎你的钱。
low0nink
True It’s a way of speaking I don’t caro
真实，就是个说法而已，我不在乎。
yaro_b
Tell me that you are poor and clueless without telling me… While I agree that big brands are setting ridiculous MSRP prices I completely disagree with some of your statements. C is cheap because many other reasons like slave labor, government-subsidized logistics, piracy, etc. If you support all of that you will reap the consequences too, it’s a two-way street.
别拐弯抹角了，直接说你又穷又无知就行……虽然我同意大牌定价离谱，但我完全不认同你一些说法。C便宜是因为很多原因：血汗工厂、ZF补贴物流、盗版等等。你支持这些，早晚也要承担后果，这是双向的。
If you only care about the price there are better ways to save on a genuine product manufactured according to labor laws and environmental regulations. For example:
sales, especially Black Friday and Prime Day.
marketplaces - sometimes people sell great devices for cheap, e.g. I’ve got basically new Vaxee XE-S for 40. Razer VV3 Pro frequently pops up for 70 or so. Smaller brands make even steeper discounts.
如果你只在乎价格，想省钱买合规产品也有办法：
等打折，黑五、会员日。
二手平台——有时候有人便宜出很新的设备，比如我40刀收了几乎全新的Vaxee XE-S。雷蛇VV3 Pro 经常70刀左右。小牌子折扣更大。
Monsterguy
Almost all mice are made in China.
There are a few exceptions, but practically all of those are still going to be using Chinese parts.
几乎所有鼠标都是中国制造。
少数例外，但核心零件也基本是国产。
yaro_b
Not all products from China made by the same people, same conditions, same materials, and passed the same QA standards. Actually the last two are the most common offenders. e.g. iPhones are also assembled in China, but they are way different from your average 50-100 phone from Temu.
不是所有中国产品都是同一批人、同条件、同材料、同质检。最后两点最常见。比如iPhone也是中国组装，但和Temu上 50–100的手机完全两码事。
low0nink
The big brand are also made in China Probably even in worst conditions
大牌也是中国制造，说不定条件更差。
yaro_b
Probably you don’t know what you are talking about and presenting your beliefs as a ground truth. I work for a big company which makes a lot of products in China. I know the requirements we put on those factories and how we control them. Also I know people who lived and worked in China. Slave labor in China is not a myth, unfortunately. The stories I know are beyond what you’d call a speculation or a conspiracy theory.
你可能根本不懂，还把自己的想法当事实。我在一家大牌公司工作，很多产品在中国生产。我知道我们对工厂的要求和管控。我也认识在国内生活工作的人。血汗工厂不是传说，我知道的那些事已经不是猜测或阴谋论了。
low0nink
You can’t tell if this brand uses child labor or any other illegal ways. For what we know this products are cheaper because of the reasons that I told in the post, they are cutting major costs in marketing, sponsors, designs, taxes and many other things.
你根本没法确定这些品牌用没用工或其他非法手段。据我所知这些产品便宜，是因为我之前说的：砍掉营销、赞助、设计、税收等大量成本。
llkeylikey
China corpo = bad. Not China corpo (who does everything in China except a having a head office full of rentiers in non evil country, meaning directlly supports all these claims, which are 100% true and verifiable) = good. Have to support poor good corpo, while the same corpo begs for government subsided credits (= also your money), avoids taxes and does all the other righteous stuff.
中国企业=坏。非中国企业（除了总部在所谓“善良国家”，其他全都在国内做=好。必须支持可怜的好企业，虽然这些企业也拿政府补贴、避税，干一样的事。
The slave labor argument is geniuenly insane, don't tell him about nestle or apple, and generally anything prior, like, 1950s simply didn't happen. With all the AI training going on now, lawful good companies definitely didn't pirate the info, they just forgot to pay, but did so with dignity and high class.
血汗工厂这套说法真的很扯，怎么不提雀巢、苹果，还有1950年之前的所有历史。
现在AI训练这么多，正规大公司绝对没有盗版数据，他们只是忘了付钱，但是很高贵体面。
yaro_b
You’ve described the difference yourself, but failed to make a conclusion. If a company registered e.g. in California uses slave labor - it will be held accountable and will be forced to improve. If a Chinese company does the same - you can’t do sh*t, you either close your eyes, ears, shutdown your conscience and just buy (because it’s cheaper) or GTFO. It’s not like you can call and ask them to eliminate slavery in their country, because they won't - cheap and slave labor is their competitive advantage. That’s exactly the reason why many Americans and (to lesser degree) Europeans lost their jobs in 90s and early 2000s - Chinese labor was much cheaper and corpos didn’t have to care about unxs and pension funds. (Of course it fired back big time, as you can see today, but it’s a different topic.)
你自己都说出区别了，却得不出结论。如果一家加州注册的公司用工，会被追责并强制整改。如果是国内企业，你什么都做不了，要么闭眼买（因为便宜），要么滚。你不可能打电话给让他们取缔血汗工厂，他们不会管——廉价劳动力就是他们的优势。这也是90年代和2000初很多美国人和欧洲人失业的原因——国内劳动力极便宜，企业不用管工会和养老金。 （当然最后反噬很严重，今天大家都看到了，但那是另一个话题。）
Your examples from the past are good. It means that Western society already went through all this and decided - slavery is not okay. European countries went even further than US and established good labor laws which make it very hard to do evil stuff to your workforce. I lived/worked in the US and top European countries where I had to study those laws, so I can compare. China has none of that, also their society still has very low moral standards. If you want proofs - google “tofu dreg”. They will get there eventually, but it takes time. I’m not a lover of big corpos myself, more often - the opposite. But here we can and have to control them. Cheers. I hope we can understand each other. Eventually.
你举的历史例子很好，这说明西方社会已经经历过这些，并认定血汗工厂是不对的。欧洲比美国更进一步，建立了完善的劳工法。我在美国和欧洲顶级国家工作生活过，专门学过这些法律，所以我能对比。国内完全没有，社会道德水平也很低。想证据搜“豆腐渣工程”。他们迟早会变好，但需要时间。 我自己也不喜欢大企业，通常是反感的。但在这方面，我们可以且必须管控它们。
干杯。希望我们最终能互相理解。
Keeldon
I dont understand point of messages like that.
U totally ignore R&D costs of companies, legal, warranty, support. These all cost, these also create some jobs in EU that recirculate cash back into EU. Steelseries once had to send me headphones 3 times over 2 years before i started using proper headphones and started avoiding gaming companies.
我不懂这种言论有什么意义。
你完全无视企业的研发、法务、保修、售后成本。这些都要钱，也在欧洲创造就业，让资金回流。赛睿曾经两年给我换了三次耳机，直到我开始用专业耳机、不再碰游戏品牌。
U ignore that shipping costs are subsidized by your country and your taxes (if u pay any that is) giving China another edge and in many cases you are supporting blatant counterfeit market.
Plus theres also a risk of using materials that could be harmful to health (and that can happen to big brands too, but they may be taken to court by you unlike Asian counterparts u talk about, recently there was a big article about headphones).
At the end of the day, do what u want. U didnt need top mouse probably, u simply wanted it. I dont see why u have to 'brag' about it too.
你无视物流补贴来自你国家的税收，给了中国另一层优势，很多时候你在支持赤裸裸的山寨市场。
还有使用有害材料的风险（大牌也会，但你可以起诉它们，亚洲品牌不行，最近有篇关于耳机的大文章）。
说到底，你爱干嘛干嘛。你可能根本不需要顶级鼠标，就是想要而已。我不明白你为什么还要炫耀。
yaro_b
Of course your comment will be downvoted. People don’t like truth in their face. You are not alone, man, not alone.
你的评论肯定会被点踩。人们不喜欢直面真相。你不是一个人，兄弟。
olioreos42069
Could never be me, will never see me rocking a shitTK or a Temu mouse. VV3, Op1 and Superstrike till I die.
我永远不可能用垃圾TK或Temu鼠标。VV3、OP1、Superstrike用到死。
Additional_Wealth918
I have used Chinese top tier mice for 3 years till last week where i decided to upgrade to a logitech superlight 2...i am sorry but the difference is big, not the same...u get what u pay for
我用了三年国产顶级鼠标，上周决定升级罗技 GPW 二代……对不起，但差距真的很大，完全不是一个东西……一分钱一分货。
MaximizeNeuroMagic
I really don't follow the hype/big names because all mouse are the same. When they break, I'll buy again. I hate when the scroll wheel becomes broken and tried to find a replacement or spare part but nothing. I hate how not all mice have the same scroll wheel so it's easy to replace.
我真不跟风hype或大牌，因为鼠标都差不多。坏了再买。我讨厌滚轮坏了找不到配件。也讨厌不是所有鼠标滚轮都通用，很难替换。
FickleOutcome6105
i have bought atk a9 air as my first Chinese clone mice , idc about anything im only gonna use ts and if this mouse doesnt survive 2 years without getting any defects (or defect under 1 year warranty so i can change) i will never buy clones again but if it survives 2 years without any damages or by replacing under warranty then im fine with buying these clone, my logitech and razer lasted 3 years with rma , i need at least 2 years with these Chinese mouse if not 3 then only they are worth it or else not at all for me.
我买了ATK A9 Air作为第一只国产山寨鼠标，我什么都不在乎，我只用TS。如果这鼠标用不到2年出问题（或1年内坏了能换），我就再也不买山寨；但如果能用2年没事或保修换新，那我就继续买。我的罗技、雷蛇用了3年还能售后。国产鼠标至少要撑 2年，最好3年，不然对我来说完全不值。
SailOk1011
i went from the superlight 2 to the new atk zero and im not going back, the difference is insane
我从GPW二代换到新ATK Zero，再也回不去了，差距巨大。
Cute-Acanthaceae-193
i used mostly logitech and finalmouse for a while, switched to Mchose L7 pro, enjoyed it sooo much that i bought the a5 v3 which is similar to my superlight 2 and was annoyed on how good the mchose is compared to my logitech one, it’s like a 120 difference between the 2 mice and the mchose one feels more premium, make it make sense.
我之前一直用罗技和FinalMouse，换了迈从L7 Pro，太香了，又买了和GPW二代相似的A5 V3。我都懵了，迈从比罗技还好使，俩鼠标差120刀，迈从质感还更高级，离谱。
replicant86
The only reason I pay for Logitech is because I can write VAT off which makes the cost bearable when on sale.
我愿意买罗技唯一原因是可以抵扣增值税，打折后价格能接受。
monolitas
Any Chinese mouse that is similar to Logitech wireless pro with more buttons?
有没有类似罗技无线GPW、但侧键更多的国产鼠标？
EnvironmentOk9539
I would recommend rakk brand as well. They have hotswappable switches and same sensor
我也推荐Rakk品牌。支持热插拔微动，传感器一样。
Semen_K
Unfortunate truth about the world is that Chinese dominate manufacturing. Over last years they went from low-end mass production into precision engineering. Buying a named brand, even Taiwanese, still stuffs pockets of the communist state.
这个世界很残酷，制造业被中国主导。过去几年他们从低端量产转向精密制造。你买任何品牌，哪怕是台湾（地区）的，钱也照样进某政权口袋。
dakookh
I gave up on brands in the same way. I ordered my VXE R1 Pro Max, and I hope I won't regret it!
我也放弃品牌了。下单了VXE R1 Pro Max，希望不后悔！
gem4ik2
That’s not how capitalism works. As soon as most competitors will leave the market, remaining ones will up the prices. This is the oldest and the most efficient strategy of monopoly.
资本主义不是这么玩的。一旦大部分竞争对手退出市场，剩下的就会涨价。这是最古老最有效的垄断策略。
SourisMonoFroid
Same.
同感。
steak_bake_surprise
It's why I've stopped buying first party controllers. I just bought two different ones, amazing quality with features that don't exist on the Elite 2, and they were 50% cheaper.
所以我不再买官方手柄。我刚买了两个不同的第三方，质量炸裂，功能Elite 2都没有，还便宜一半。
TxBeerWorldwide
Mchose L7 Ultra+ beats everything else Ive tried.
迈从L7 Ultra+ 吊打我用过的所有东西。
xbimmerhue
"My setup now speaks mandarin "
“我的桌面现在说中文”
YoloRaj
I have a Chinese keyboard and just recently mouse now. Didnt do it intentionally but I guess I'm part of the club lmfao. I just got the delux m900 pro just yesterday and have had the Aula F75 pro for some time now.
我有个国产键盘，最近又入了鼠标。不是故意的，但我也算加入俱乐部了哈哈。我昨天刚买了多彩M900 Pro，狼蛛F75 Pro用了一段时间。
low0nink
What are your opinion about the keyboard? I’m thinking about getting one TKL
键盘怎么样？我想入个TKL。
YoloRaj
I really like it tbh. Going from a regular size keyboard really saved me some desk space. I also like being able to hotswap keycaps and switches. I came from a razer full size keyboard I had for like 5 years. You should go 75 imo. Tkl is bigger for no reason.
我真的很喜欢。从全尺寸换过来，省了很多桌面空间。我也喜欢能热插拔键帽和轴体。我之前用雷蛇全尺寸，用了5年。我建议你直接75配列，TKL 没啥必要，更大更笨。
dervu
So why those Chinese companies didn't come with superstrike tech first?
Are they dumb?
那为什么国产厂商没先做出Superstrike技术？
他们傻吗？
low0nink
You mean the tech that are being banned in every game? XD Give it some days and they will recreate it
你说的是那个所有游戏都封禁的技术？XD过几天他们就复刻出来了。
india2wallst
I got this Mchose mouse from AliExpress. It's same as my Logitech super light and I am still hard stuck plat. So it's not worse than the Logitech
我从阿里Express买了迈从鼠标，和我的罗技GPW一模一样，我还是卡在铂金段。所以它不比罗技差
FrogsFloatToo
Welcome. If you're still paying Logitech prices then you're a sucker
欢迎加入。还在原价买罗技的就是纯冤种。
Breezyrain
Me with my 150 Chinese mouse... But yeah, I'm not overly attached to marketing or feeling as though expensive means quality or cheap means shoddy.
There's plenty of hidden and cheap gems, and a lot of them are Chinese. And plenty of Western brands that are built terribly.
我用150刀的国产鼠标……但我真不在乎营销，也不觉得贵=好、便宜=差。
有很多隐藏好货，大部分都是国产。也有很多西方品牌做工稀烂。
low0nink
True
真实。
BusinessEngineer6931
But what about our millionaire executives and billionaire owners and their families? How will they survive now? You should be ashamed
那我们的百万高管、亿万老板和他们的家人怎么办？你好意思吗？
low0nink
if everyone thinks like you the world doesn't change
如果所有人都这么想，世界永远不会改变。
BusinessEngineer6931
I was being sarcastic I thought obvious lol sorry I agree with you. It’s the corporations own fault for getting comfortable and choosing high exec compensation and focusing on margins instead of innovating
我在讽刺啊，我以为很明显，抱歉，我同意你。这些企业自己躺平了，只想着高管高薪和利润，不搞创新，活该。
OpportunityNo1834
Specs and shapes are all the same now. My biggest obxtive now is who has the best wireless implementation, who has the best USB polling stability, who's wireless implementation feels like a wired mouse. Unfortunately I think Logitech is still king in that regard. And it's unfortunate because they don't upxe old shapes that are goated, it's just retakes on the G Pro Superlight.
现在配置和造型都差不多了。我最看重的是无线方案、USB 回报率稳定性、无线能不能做到跟有线一样。可惜这方面罗技还是王者。而且他们不更新经典模具，只会在 GPW 基础上改。
Logitech wireless implementation feels super raw in a good way, it's very smooth and 1 to 1 with your movements. Razer has really good firmware too but theirs is very very controlled, like the cursor feels slowed down like there's heavy motion sync implemted, I like it , I feel very in control with it, but logitechs feels very lightweight sort to speak, like there's less assistance than the razer wireless tech, but higher ceiling with faster movements if you can control it
罗技无线非常跟手，很丝滑，百分百跟手。雷蛇固件也很强，但非常“受控”，光标感觉被减速，有很强的动态同步。我也喜欢，很稳，但罗技更轻盈，辅助更少，上限更高。
surrendergetout
We love Chinese brands like vxe and mchose, these Chinese companies are carrying setups world wide. Razer dropped a 300 mouse with mediocre features and bloatware software they call synapse, WL mouse dropped an even better mouse for basically half the price.
我们都爱VXE、迈从这些国产，这些国产在支撑全世界的桌面。雷蛇出个300刀鼠标，功能一般，还有臃肿的雷云软件。国产鼠标出个更好的，价钱直接砍半。
kokieespt
Just Google the mouse pccomponentes is selling it at 140€ and at the same time alixpress ads has it at 40€ what is a good store to buy it? The price diference is crazy
你去搜搜看，PC组件店卖140欧元，阿里Express广告只要40欧元。在哪买靠谱？差价太疯狂了。
AcanthisittaCheap416
Had a zowie then becayse all the hype with Chinese decided to buy attack shark x3 and its was only 30 bucks, absolutely mogged the zowie mouse, felt so good in hand, small and so light compared to zowie, battery life i think it last about ~60 hours on 1000 hz , and in 10 min its charged fully using my phone charger, 10/10 im never going to waste 150-200 bucks on big brands mouses.
之前用卓威，后来看国产吹得凶，30块买了攻击鲨X3，直接把卓威爆了。手感巨好，又小又轻，电池1000Hz大概60小时，10 分钟充满。10/10，我再也不会花150–200刀买大牌鼠标。
iron_marcus
Got an A7 Pro from Mchose. I could pay 170 for the Deathadder or 50 for the A7 Pro. There is no difference, all the tech specs are bs anyways. My CSGO game isn't worse because I don't have the "name brand" mouse.
入了迈从A7 Pro。我可以花170买炼狱蝰蛇，也可以50买A7 Pro。完全没区别，所有参数都是玄学。我CSGO不会因为不是“大牌”就变强。
Dodging the strike down of the rumors already I presume?
Still, maybe, but depending on if the tech is patented or not, I'm not going to be holding my breath, and considering I've been burned before by one of said companies with the product once and the customer support or lack thereof second (starts with an A), I have zero faith or trust in them with my money no matter how much or little it costs.
你这是直接无视辟谣是吧？
就算真会，也要看技术有没有专利，我不抱期待。而且我之前被某家（A开头的）厂商坑过一次，产品烂、售后更烂，所以我不管多便宜都不会再信他们。
yaro_b
Lol, that’s a clueless comment and an eternal belief in the power of stealing of intellectual property. Half-decent Chinese mice cost 50-70, which is 2-2.5x less than their big brand targets. You have to be absolutely clueless to claim that Superstrike clone will cost 1/10 of 180. If they manage to clone it at all. Chinese manufactures are not charity orgs, they will also try to take advantage of this hype technology and will mark up the prices. Get ready to pay 80-90 for a half-assed clones with incomplete functionality and messed up weight balance.
笑死，这评论也太无知了，还天天迷信“偷知识产权”。稍微像样点的国产鼠标也就50–70，比大牌便宜2–2.5倍。
你要真无知到觉得Super Strike山寨版能卖180的1/10，那真没话说。就算他们真能抄出来，国产厂商也不是慈善家，照样会借着新技术涨价。准备好花80–90买个功能残缺、配重稀烂的半成品山寨版吧。
bas5eb
Not only that, C companies depending on what it is are heavily subsidized. The goal is to put the original company out of business and then they jack up prices to what they were being sold for by the company they stole the intellectual property from. They've been doing this for decades. It's one of the reasons the whole trade war started. They use the west courts to protect themselves yet dont follow thru on their end. Its nearly impossible to sue them in C for theft or copying a product because well the government's in on it.
不止如此，很多C企业还有巨额补贴。目的就是把原版公司搞垮，然后再涨回原价。他们几十年都这么干，这也是贸易战的原因之一。他们用西方法律保护自己，却不遵守规则。在C起诉抄袭基本不可能，因为官方都掺和在里面。
yaro_b
Exactly. Car manufacturers feel it today. The last stand of industrial power in Europe… and Japan too, probably.
没错。现在汽车厂商已经感受到了。欧洲工业最后的阵地……日本估计也一样。
Disturbed2468
If you're Chinese and young you can actually get insanely good low-interest loans from the Chinese government via the banks (which are either partially or fully state-owned and state-regulated) to start a business in the tech field, and can usually have low to zero interest for a few years at the start and get bonuses for it. It's actually why the Chi-Fi scene is so cutthroat both within China and abroad, as some companies have actually made some EXTREMELY good products, but longeitivity is yet to be seen since so many companies are so new, and customer support is very dubious depending on the brand you go for.
在中国，年轻人创业可以拿到超低息贷款，银行都是国有或半国有的，开头几年基本零息，还有补贴。这也是国内HiFi圈卷得这么狠的原因，很多产品确实做得极好，但品牌太新，寿命还不清楚，售后也看牌子。
paulvincent07
Razer Viper Mini V3 Wired 8khz pls
Even big brands source their materials in China everything is made in China
求个雷蛇毒蝰迷你V3有线8kHz。
其实大牌也都是在中国采购零件，所有东西都是中国制造。
cha0ss0ldier
With the big brands you’re also paying for the R&D costs that go into these mice, you’re paying for a real warranty, functional software, and the ability to walk into a brick and mortar store and buy the mouse. R&D is a big chunk of the cost and it’s easy to cut prices when you avoid that by cloning/using OEM shapes.
I’m not hating on Chinese mice, they are great for the market and a vast majority of people should not be spending 150+ on a mouse, but there are valid reasons the big names are more expensive. Do the big brands slap some extra on top of that as well? Sure. Best to wait for sales on the big brands, they always end up at least 30% off after a while.
你买大牌，买的是研发成本、真正的保修、能用的软件，还有线下实体店能买到。研发占成本大头，抄模具、用公模就能便宜很正常。我不是黑国产鼠标，它们对市场很好，大多数人也根本不该花150多买鼠标，但大牌贵是有合理原因的。当然大牌也会加价，等打折入最香。
nectar886
Agree and disagree, the core technology or fundamental tech were not developed by companies! The tech there, mostly, were invented by scientists in universities long before it hits the industry. The industry may need to spend resources on implementing those scientific breakthroughs into their specific products only
部分同意部分不同意。核心基础技术都不是厂商研发的！大多是大学科学家早就搞出来的，行业只是把科研成果落地到产品里而已。
low0nink
For those who don't mind paying the prices, there's no problem. When I bought it, I couldn't resist trying it out, and I don't regret it.
对不介意价钱的人来说没啥问题。我当时买了也没忍住试了下，不后悔。
mattiasso
Most if not all brands (minus Dyson) spend individually more money on Marketing or Shareholder compensations than R&D
除了戴森，大多数品牌花在营销或股东分红上的钱都比研发多。
low0nink
True XD
真实，哈哈。
chinomaster182
I felt like you why i bought an atk mouse. I couldn't believe they sold me a deathadder for 30 dollars or so.
I felt like such a dumbass gifting all that money to razer to give them the privilege of installing their garbage spyware on my machine.
我当初买ATK鼠标也是这心态。30美元左右就能买到炼狱蝰蛇版型，我简直觉得以前给雷蛇送钱是纯纯大冤种，还让他们在我电脑装垃圾间谍软件。
Raytheon-6
ViperV3Pro/EC2-CW/XM2we/DAv3Pro/ViperV2Pro/G502x/GPX/MadG/X1Pro
Welcome to the club!
欢迎加入组织！
iShadowLTu
I've had Razer/Logitech mice for like the past 15 if not 20 years now. About a month ago I also decided to go Chinese. Got the MCHOSE L7 and couldn't be happier. Never going back to paying for the logos again.
过去15–20年我一直用雷蛇、罗技。大概一个月前我也转国产了，买了迈从L7，巨满意，再也不会为了logo交智商税。
ColdClassic7516
I’m not saying this just to disagree with you. Yeah some of them use the same chip and sensor, but not every brands.
I had a dongle problem once and there was literally no replacement. No replacement dongle, no replacement chip, nothing. I was basically cooked and had to use it wired.
warranty is a big one. If you buy a 50 mouse or headset and it breaks, what do you do? Buy another 50 one? Because this usually happens and if it does you’re f. That can easily end up costing more.
我不是故意抬杠。确实有些用同款芯片传感器，但不是所有品牌都这样。
我之前接收器坏过，根本没配件换，没接收器、没芯片替换，基本就废了，只能插线用。
保修很重要。你买个50块的鼠标坏了怎么办？再买一个？那很容易越花越多。
This doesn’t apply to everyone, but in some countries retailers don’t really care once the product breaks, even if you throw tantrum about this and that they could easily void your warranty. If warranty is a hassle or basically nonexistent, you’re kinda cooked and just end up buying another one.So if you have the money, I’d still say going with more known brands can be safer, at least sometimes. You’re not just paying for the hardware but also the support if something goes wrong or replacement part at the very least
And software matters too for some products. A lot of people like tweaking settings and profiles, and cheaper brands don’t always do a great job there
有些国家的零售商根本不管，闹也没用，直接拒保。
所以有钱的话我还是建议买靠谱点的牌子，至少有时候更稳。你买的不只是硬件，还有出问题时的支持，最起码能换配件。
而且软件对有些人也很重要，很多人喜欢调设置、改配置，便宜牌子软件普遍做得烂。
BetterProphet5585
The brand you pay is R&D, QC, support and software not the product itself.
The product is like 20 plastic and a couple of clicks and sensors.
Chinese brands hardly have any R&D, QC, support and good software (and I see you, slow down buddy, I didn't say all, I said hardly).
你为品牌付费，付的是研发、品控、售后、软件，不是产品本身。
产品就是20块钱的塑料加几个按键传感器。
国产厂商基本没啥研发、品控、售后、好用的软件（我没说全部，是普遍情况）。
I've had a Beast X Max, Attack Shark, Logitech, Gravastar and many others. Guess who has the best software.
Black sheep was the Beast X where their support amazed me, faster and really good. For everything else, software sucked ass so bad it bugged the mouse, you get Chinese parts, untranslated, slow, buggy mess. You don't want that. You will sweat while doing firmware upxes, possibly get spywares and bad code.
我用过Beast X Max、Attack Shark、罗技、 Gravastar等等。你猜谁软件最好？
唯一例外是Beast X，售后惊到我了，很快又好。其他的软件都烂得一批，中文机翻、卡顿、bug。更固件都提心吊胆，还可能有间谍软件、垃圾代码。
Chinese brands
often copy the design and research done by the west and then try to shove it in a random product. Again, not always but very often. This happens on cars, phones, clothes, tech.If you like the overall experience and substance, go west.
If you just want the product, China.
edit: never really got something as good for a third of the price, maybe half discounted, but a lot of times the prices are pretty comparable
国产经常抄西方设计和研发，然后随便塞个壳子里。不是全部，但很常见。汽车、手机、衣服、科技产品都这样。
你想要整体体验和质感，选西方。
你只想要能用的产品，选中国。
补充：我从没见过三分之一价钱能做到一样好的，最多半价，很多时候价钱其实差不多。
Brief_Insurance8637
im fine with a Chinese mouse but most of them rip off shells from other companies. i dont care if the big companies make me overpay for their mouse since im blessed to be in a position where i can pay for it + i dont want to support who regularizes ripping off designs. if its their original design then sure, but some of them are just exactly the same.
我用国产鼠标没问题，但它们大多数都抄别人的外壳。我不在乎大牌溢价，因为我有这个条件，而且我不想支持那些靠抄袭设计牟利的品牌。如果是原创设计我肯定支持，但有些简直一模一样。
TradeSekrat
Exactly... I also don't think is fair to throw smaller enthusiasts level companies like say Lamzu etc at 50 or less employees in with Razor, Logitech or even Pulsar. I don't have problem paying for a Lamzu product. Where as Logitech move more branded product in a week than a small enthusiasts company will in a year. Even Pulsar is fine as they keep pushing design ideas.
That all innovation stops if everyone just buys from clone companies with barely even a website. Just straight cutting corners on someone else's design to get the price down.
没错……我也觉得把Lamzu这种只有几十人的小厂，和雷蛇、罗技甚至Pulsar放一起骂不太公平。我愿意为Lamzu花钱。罗技一周卖的量，比小厂一年还多。就算是Pulsar也还行，他们一直在做设计创新。
如果所有人都去买连官网都懒得做的山寨货，创新就彻底停了。纯粹抄别人设计、偷工减料来降价。
fiddlesticks_irl
I think that Razer and Logitech have such a chokehold on the non-enthusiast population that revenue will never be a problem for them. Most pros are still using GPXs/Vipers and the average consumer is walking into a Best Buy trying to get any "gaming keyboard / mouse" that does the job. A friend used to work at a Razer store and it surprised me how many people just walk in willing to drop a blank amount of cash on gaming peripherals and walk out.
Brand recognition is huge and I wouldn't be surprised if 95% of peripheral buyers aren't interested in looking beyond Razer, Logitech, SteelSeries, Corsair, etc.
我觉得雷蛇、罗技对普通玩家的垄断太强了，收入根本不是问题。大部分职业选手还在用 GPX、毒蝰，普通消费者进百思买就随便买个能用的游戏键鼠。我朋友以前在雷蛇门店工作，很多人直接进店闭眼买高端外设，我都看傻了。
品牌认知度太重要了，我丝毫不意外 95% 的人只认雷蛇、罗技、赛睿、美商海盗船这些。
DarkReaper969
VXE R1 Pro Max
I bought the same mouse a few months back, not a single negative thing to say about it! Its really worth the price and not having to have an extra programm on my pc and running? Its a blessing. (Looking at you Razer ESPECIALLY YOU). Also i havent had any issues with the software, and i feel like its way better made then most from "premium" brands even!
几个月前买的，完全挑不出毛病！绝对值这个价，还不用在电脑里多装一个软件？简直福音。（说的就是你雷蛇，尤其是你）。而且我用软件也没出问题，感觉做工比很多“高端”大牌还好！
confusingadult
yeah with no proper customer service, no warranty, shitty software. questionable QC. i pay more for convenient. and also i only buy 1 mouse for 3 years so its not that expensive.
是啊，没有靠谱售后、没有保修、垃圾软件、品控迷。我多花钱买的是方便。而且我一只鼠标用3年，其实也不算贵。
xak47d
Scyrox V8 - MCHOSE L7 Pro
I'd rather do it on a 50 dollar mouse than a 150 one
我宁愿在50刀的鼠标上折腾，也不在150刀的上面搞。
grapher4566
It's a bit ironic to be talking about manually changing switches on name brand mice when the parent comment is talking about buying name brand mice specifically for the convenience no?
有点讽刺啊，楼上刚说买大牌就是图省事，结果在这聊手动换微动。
yaro_b
Aren’t we talking about post-warranty issues? Cheap junk will likely not live that long. Or will look ass, because all Chinese brands use cheap plastic which starts yellowing almost immediately. Fixing a quality product is >> than just buying cheap junk again. It’s also better for the rock we all live on.
我们不是在说保外维修吗？便宜货大概率活不到那时候，或者外观烂得一批。所有国产牌子都用廉价塑料，几乎马上就发黄。修复优质产品 >> 再买一次便宜垃圾。对地球也更友好。
KutteKrabber
I bought the ATK X1 Ultra and one spare, the Ultimate.
-Could those points be true? Sure. Did I actually need them? No.
-Bad customer service? Didn't matter, the mouse works perfectly.
-No warranty? Also irrelevant, the mouse works perfectly.
-Shitty software? Not really. It is web based and works perfectly.
-Questionable QC? Maybe, but that is the same with most top brands. Luck of the draw.
我买了ATK X1 Ultra，还备了一只Ultimate。
你说的那些问题可能存在吗？有可能。但我真的需要吗？不需要。
售后差？无所谓，鼠标完美运行。
没保修？也无所谓，鼠标完美运行。
软件烂？并没有，网页版用着很稳。
品控迷？也许吧，但大部分顶级品牌也一样，看运气。
low0nink
That’s it
就这道理。
Wooden_Performance_9
Yeah it’s real easy with a 40 mouse with hotswap
是啊，40块的鼠标支持热插拔，换起来超简单
marsd
A gpro or vv3p is never going to be 30 unboxed brand new even if they're 10 years old
GPro或者VV3P就算放10年，也不可能全新30刀。
yaro_b
If you want latest and greatest - think about how you could start earning more.
想要最新最好的，就想想怎么多赚点钱。
Prosciuttolo
You apologize to the big brands? Do you actually think the brands are your friends or care about you? They just care about your wallet.
你还给大牌道歉呢？你真以为这些品牌把你当朋友？他们只在乎你的钱。
low0nink
True It’s a way of speaking I don’t caro
真实，就是个说法而已，我不在乎。
yaro_b
Tell me that you are poor and clueless without telling me… While I agree that big brands are setting ridiculous MSRP prices I completely disagree with some of your statements. C is cheap because many other reasons like slave labor, government-subsidized logistics, piracy, etc. If you support all of that you will reap the consequences too, it’s a two-way street.
别拐弯抹角了，直接说你又穷又无知就行……虽然我同意大牌定价离谱，但我完全不认同你一些说法。C便宜是因为很多原因：血汗工厂、ZF补贴物流、盗版等等。你支持这些，早晚也要承担后果，这是双向的。
If you only care about the price there are better ways to save on a genuine product manufactured according to labor laws and environmental regulations. For example:
sales, especially Black Friday and Prime Day.
marketplaces - sometimes people sell great devices for cheap, e.g. I’ve got basically new Vaxee XE-S for 40. Razer VV3 Pro frequently pops up for 70 or so. Smaller brands make even steeper discounts.
如果你只在乎价格，想省钱买合规产品也有办法：
等打折，黑五、会员日。
二手平台——有时候有人便宜出很新的设备，比如我40刀收了几乎全新的Vaxee XE-S。雷蛇VV3 Pro 经常70刀左右。小牌子折扣更大。
Monsterguy
Almost all mice are made in China.
There are a few exceptions, but practically all of those are still going to be using Chinese parts.
几乎所有鼠标都是中国制造。
少数例外，但核心零件也基本是国产。
yaro_b
Not all products from China made by the same people, same conditions, same materials, and passed the same QA standards. Actually the last two are the most common offenders. e.g. iPhones are also assembled in China, but they are way different from your average 50-100 phone from Temu.
不是所有中国产品都是同一批人、同条件、同材料、同质检。最后两点最常见。比如iPhone也是中国组装，但和Temu上 50–100的手机完全两码事。
low0nink
The big brand are also made in China Probably even in worst conditions
大牌也是中国制造，说不定条件更差。
yaro_b
Probably you don’t know what you are talking about and presenting your beliefs as a ground truth. I work for a big company which makes a lot of products in China. I know the requirements we put on those factories and how we control them. Also I know people who lived and worked in China. Slave labor in China is not a myth, unfortunately. The stories I know are beyond what you’d call a speculation or a conspiracy theory.
你可能根本不懂，还把自己的想法当事实。我在一家大牌公司工作，很多产品在中国生产。我知道我们对工厂的要求和管控。我也认识在国内生活工作的人。血汗工厂不是传说，我知道的那些事已经不是猜测或阴谋论了。
low0nink
You can’t tell if this brand uses child labor or any other illegal ways. For what we know this products are cheaper because of the reasons that I told in the post, they are cutting major costs in marketing, sponsors, designs, taxes and many other things.
你根本没法确定这些品牌用没用工或其他非法手段。据我所知这些产品便宜，是因为我之前说的：砍掉营销、赞助、设计、税收等大量成本。
llkeylikey
China corpo = bad. Not China corpo (who does everything in China except a having a head office full of rentiers in non evil country, meaning directlly supports all these claims, which are 100% true and verifiable) = good. Have to support poor good corpo, while the same corpo begs for government subsided credits (= also your money), avoids taxes and does all the other righteous stuff.
中国企业=坏。非中国企业（除了总部在所谓“善良国家”，其他全都在国内做=好。必须支持可怜的好企业，虽然这些企业也拿政府补贴、避税，干一样的事。
The slave labor argument is geniuenly insane, don't tell him about nestle or apple, and generally anything prior, like, 1950s simply didn't happen. With all the AI training going on now, lawful good companies definitely didn't pirate the info, they just forgot to pay, but did so with dignity and high class.
血汗工厂这套说法真的很扯，怎么不提雀巢、苹果，还有1950年之前的所有历史。
现在AI训练这么多，正规大公司绝对没有盗版数据，他们只是忘了付钱，但是很高贵体面。
yaro_b
You’ve described the difference yourself, but failed to make a conclusion. If a company registered e.g. in California uses slave labor - it will be held accountable and will be forced to improve. If a Chinese company does the same - you can’t do sh*t, you either close your eyes, ears, shutdown your conscience and just buy (because it’s cheaper) or GTFO. It’s not like you can call and ask them to eliminate slavery in their country, because they won't - cheap and slave labor is their competitive advantage. That’s exactly the reason why many Americans and (to lesser degree) Europeans lost their jobs in 90s and early 2000s - Chinese labor was much cheaper and corpos didn’t have to care about unxs and pension funds. (Of course it fired back big time, as you can see today, but it’s a different topic.)
你自己都说出区别了，却得不出结论。如果一家加州注册的公司用工，会被追责并强制整改。如果是国内企业，你什么都做不了，要么闭眼买（因为便宜），要么滚。你不可能打电话给让他们取缔血汗工厂，他们不会管——廉价劳动力就是他们的优势。这也是90年代和2000初很多美国人和欧洲人失业的原因——国内劳动力极便宜，企业不用管工会和养老金。 （当然最后反噬很严重，今天大家都看到了，但那是另一个话题。）
Your examples from the past are good. It means that Western society already went through all this and decided - slavery is not okay. European countries went even further than US and established good labor laws which make it very hard to do evil stuff to your workforce. I lived/worked in the US and top European countries where I had to study those laws, so I can compare. China has none of that, also their society still has very low moral standards. If you want proofs - google “tofu dreg”. They will get there eventually, but it takes time. I’m not a lover of big corpos myself, more often - the opposite. But here we can and have to control them. Cheers. I hope we can understand each other. Eventually.
你举的历史例子很好，这说明西方社会已经经历过这些，并认定血汗工厂是不对的。欧洲比美国更进一步，建立了完善的劳工法。我在美国和欧洲顶级国家工作生活过，专门学过这些法律，所以我能对比。国内完全没有，社会道德水平也很低。想证据搜“豆腐渣工程”。他们迟早会变好，但需要时间。 我自己也不喜欢大企业，通常是反感的。但在这方面，我们可以且必须管控它们。
干杯。希望我们最终能互相理解。
Keeldon
I dont understand point of messages like that.
U totally ignore R&D costs of companies, legal, warranty, support. These all cost, these also create some jobs in EU that recirculate cash back into EU. Steelseries once had to send me headphones 3 times over 2 years before i started using proper headphones and started avoiding gaming companies.
我不懂这种言论有什么意义。
你完全无视企业的研发、法务、保修、售后成本。这些都要钱，也在欧洲创造就业，让资金回流。赛睿曾经两年给我换了三次耳机，直到我开始用专业耳机、不再碰游戏品牌。
U ignore that shipping costs are subsidized by your country and your taxes (if u pay any that is) giving China another edge and in many cases you are supporting blatant counterfeit market.
Plus theres also a risk of using materials that could be harmful to health (and that can happen to big brands too, but they may be taken to court by you unlike Asian counterparts u talk about, recently there was a big article about headphones).
At the end of the day, do what u want. U didnt need top mouse probably, u simply wanted it. I dont see why u have to 'brag' about it too.
你无视物流补贴来自你国家的税收，给了中国另一层优势，很多时候你在支持赤裸裸的山寨市场。
还有使用有害材料的风险（大牌也会，但你可以起诉它们，亚洲品牌不行，最近有篇关于耳机的大文章）。
说到底，你爱干嘛干嘛。你可能根本不需要顶级鼠标，就是想要而已。我不明白你为什么还要炫耀。
yaro_b
Of course your comment will be downvoted. People don’t like truth in their face. You are not alone, man, not alone.
你的评论肯定会被点踩。人们不喜欢直面真相。你不是一个人，兄弟。
olioreos42069
Could never be me, will never see me rocking a shitTK or a Temu mouse. VV3, Op1 and Superstrike till I die.
我永远不可能用垃圾TK或Temu鼠标。VV3、OP1、Superstrike用到死。
Additional_Wealth918
I have used Chinese top tier mice for 3 years till last week where i decided to upgrade to a logitech superlight 2...i am sorry but the difference is big, not the same...u get what u pay for
我用了三年国产顶级鼠标，上周决定升级罗技 GPW 二代……对不起，但差距真的很大，完全不是一个东西……一分钱一分货。
MaximizeNeuroMagic
I really don't follow the hype/big names because all mouse are the same. When they break, I'll buy again. I hate when the scroll wheel becomes broken and tried to find a replacement or spare part but nothing. I hate how not all mice have the same scroll wheel so it's easy to replace.
我真不跟风hype或大牌，因为鼠标都差不多。坏了再买。我讨厌滚轮坏了找不到配件。也讨厌不是所有鼠标滚轮都通用，很难替换。
FickleOutcome6105
i have bought atk a9 air as my first Chinese clone mice , idc about anything im only gonna use ts and if this mouse doesnt survive 2 years without getting any defects (or defect under 1 year warranty so i can change) i will never buy clones again but if it survives 2 years without any damages or by replacing under warranty then im fine with buying these clone, my logitech and razer lasted 3 years with rma , i need at least 2 years with these Chinese mouse if not 3 then only they are worth it or else not at all for me.
我买了ATK A9 Air作为第一只国产山寨鼠标，我什么都不在乎，我只用TS。如果这鼠标用不到2年出问题（或1年内坏了能换），我就再也不买山寨；但如果能用2年没事或保修换新，那我就继续买。我的罗技、雷蛇用了3年还能售后。国产鼠标至少要撑 2年，最好3年，不然对我来说完全不值。
SailOk1011
i went from the superlight 2 to the new atk zero and im not going back, the difference is insane
我从GPW二代换到新ATK Zero，再也回不去了，差距巨大。
Cute-Acanthaceae-193
i used mostly logitech and finalmouse for a while, switched to Mchose L7 pro, enjoyed it sooo much that i bought the a5 v3 which is similar to my superlight 2 and was annoyed on how good the mchose is compared to my logitech one, it’s like a 120 difference between the 2 mice and the mchose one feels more premium, make it make sense.
我之前一直用罗技和FinalMouse，换了迈从L7 Pro，太香了，又买了和GPW二代相似的A5 V3。我都懵了，迈从比罗技还好使，俩鼠标差120刀，迈从质感还更高级，离谱。
replicant86
The only reason I pay for Logitech is because I can write VAT off which makes the cost bearable when on sale.
我愿意买罗技唯一原因是可以抵扣增值税，打折后价格能接受。
monolitas
Any Chinese mouse that is similar to Logitech wireless pro with more buttons?
有没有类似罗技无线GPW、但侧键更多的国产鼠标？
EnvironmentOk9539
I would recommend rakk brand as well. They have hotswappable switches and same sensor
我也推荐Rakk品牌。支持热插拔微动，传感器一样。
Semen_K
Unfortunate truth about the world is that Chinese dominate manufacturing. Over last years they went from low-end mass production into precision engineering. Buying a named brand, even Taiwanese, still stuffs pockets of the communist state.
这个世界很残酷，制造业被中国主导。过去几年他们从低端量产转向精密制造。你买任何品牌，哪怕是台湾（地区）的，钱也照样进某政权口袋。
dakookh
I gave up on brands in the same way. I ordered my VXE R1 Pro Max, and I hope I won't regret it!
我也放弃品牌了。下单了VXE R1 Pro Max，希望不后悔！
gem4ik2
That’s not how capitalism works. As soon as most competitors will leave the market, remaining ones will up the prices. This is the oldest and the most efficient strategy of monopoly.
资本主义不是这么玩的。一旦大部分竞争对手退出市场，剩下的就会涨价。这是最古老最有效的垄断策略。
SourisMonoFroid
Same.
同感。
steak_bake_surprise
It's why I've stopped buying first party controllers. I just bought two different ones, amazing quality with features that don't exist on the Elite 2, and they were 50% cheaper.
所以我不再买官方手柄。我刚买了两个不同的第三方，质量炸裂，功能Elite 2都没有，还便宜一半。
TxBeerWorldwide
Mchose L7 Ultra+ beats everything else Ive tried.
迈从L7 Ultra+ 吊打我用过的所有东西。
xbimmerhue
"My setup now speaks mandarin "
“我的桌面现在说中文”
YoloRaj
I have a Chinese keyboard and just recently mouse now. Didnt do it intentionally but I guess I'm part of the club lmfao. I just got the delux m900 pro just yesterday and have had the Aula F75 pro for some time now.
我有个国产键盘，最近又入了鼠标。不是故意的，但我也算加入俱乐部了哈哈。我昨天刚买了多彩M900 Pro，狼蛛F75 Pro用了一段时间。
low0nink
What are your opinion about the keyboard? I’m thinking about getting one TKL
键盘怎么样？我想入个TKL。
YoloRaj
I really like it tbh. Going from a regular size keyboard really saved me some desk space. I also like being able to hotswap keycaps and switches. I came from a razer full size keyboard I had for like 5 years. You should go 75 imo. Tkl is bigger for no reason.
我真的很喜欢。从全尺寸换过来，省了很多桌面空间。我也喜欢能热插拔键帽和轴体。我之前用雷蛇全尺寸，用了5年。我建议你直接75配列，TKL 没啥必要，更大更笨。
dervu
So why those Chinese companies didn't come with superstrike tech first?
Are they dumb?
那为什么国产厂商没先做出Superstrike技术？
他们傻吗？
low0nink
You mean the tech that are being banned in every game? XD Give it some days and they will recreate it
你说的是那个所有游戏都封禁的技术？XD过几天他们就复刻出来了。
india2wallst
I got this Mchose mouse from AliExpress. It's same as my Logitech super light and I am still hard stuck plat. So it's not worse than the Logitech
我从阿里Express买了迈从鼠标，和我的罗技GPW一模一样，我还是卡在铂金段。所以它不比罗技差
FrogsFloatToo
Welcome. If you're still paying Logitech prices then you're a sucker
欢迎加入。还在原价买罗技的就是纯冤种。
Breezyrain
Me with my 150 Chinese mouse... But yeah, I'm not overly attached to marketing or feeling as though expensive means quality or cheap means shoddy.
There's plenty of hidden and cheap gems, and a lot of them are Chinese. And plenty of Western brands that are built terribly.
我用150刀的国产鼠标……但我真不在乎营销，也不觉得贵=好、便宜=差。
有很多隐藏好货，大部分都是国产。也有很多西方品牌做工稀烂。
low0nink
True
真实。
BusinessEngineer6931
But what about our millionaire executives and billionaire owners and their families? How will they survive now? You should be ashamed
那我们的百万高管、亿万老板和他们的家人怎么办？你好意思吗？
low0nink
if everyone thinks like you the world doesn't change
如果所有人都这么想，世界永远不会改变。
BusinessEngineer6931
I was being sarcastic I thought obvious lol sorry I agree with you. It’s the corporations own fault for getting comfortable and choosing high exec compensation and focusing on margins instead of innovating
我在讽刺啊，我以为很明显，抱歉，我同意你。这些企业自己躺平了，只想着高管高薪和利润，不搞创新，活该。
OpportunityNo1834
Specs and shapes are all the same now. My biggest obxtive now is who has the best wireless implementation, who has the best USB polling stability, who's wireless implementation feels like a wired mouse. Unfortunately I think Logitech is still king in that regard. And it's unfortunate because they don't upxe old shapes that are goated, it's just retakes on the G Pro Superlight.
现在配置和造型都差不多了。我最看重的是无线方案、USB 回报率稳定性、无线能不能做到跟有线一样。可惜这方面罗技还是王者。而且他们不更新经典模具，只会在 GPW 基础上改。
Logitech wireless implementation feels super raw in a good way, it's very smooth and 1 to 1 with your movements. Razer has really good firmware too but theirs is very very controlled, like the cursor feels slowed down like there's heavy motion sync implemted, I like it , I feel very in control with it, but logitechs feels very lightweight sort to speak, like there's less assistance than the razer wireless tech, but higher ceiling with faster movements if you can control it
罗技无线非常跟手，很丝滑，百分百跟手。雷蛇固件也很强，但非常“受控”，光标感觉被减速，有很强的动态同步。我也喜欢，很稳，但罗技更轻盈，辅助更少，上限更高。
surrendergetout
We love Chinese brands like vxe and mchose, these Chinese companies are carrying setups world wide. Razer dropped a 300 mouse with mediocre features and bloatware software they call synapse, WL mouse dropped an even better mouse for basically half the price.
我们都爱VXE、迈从这些国产，这些国产在支撑全世界的桌面。雷蛇出个300刀鼠标，功能一般，还有臃肿的雷云软件。国产鼠标出个更好的，价钱直接砍半。
kokieespt
Just Google the mouse pccomponentes is selling it at 140€ and at the same time alixpress ads has it at 40€ what is a good store to buy it? The price diference is crazy
你去搜搜看，PC组件店卖140欧元，阿里Express广告只要40欧元。在哪买靠谱？差价太疯狂了。
AcanthisittaCheap416
Had a zowie then becayse all the hype with Chinese decided to buy attack shark x3 and its was only 30 bucks, absolutely mogged the zowie mouse, felt so good in hand, small and so light compared to zowie, battery life i think it last about ~60 hours on 1000 hz , and in 10 min its charged fully using my phone charger, 10/10 im never going to waste 150-200 bucks on big brands mouses.
之前用卓威，后来看国产吹得凶，30块买了攻击鲨X3，直接把卓威爆了。手感巨好，又小又轻，电池1000Hz大概60小时，10 分钟充满。10/10，我再也不会花150–200刀买大牌鼠标。
iron_marcus
Got an A7 Pro from Mchose. I could pay 170 for the Deathadder or 50 for the A7 Pro. There is no difference, all the tech specs are bs anyways. My CSGO game isn't worse because I don't have the "name brand" mouse.
入了迈从A7 Pro。我可以花170买炼狱蝰蛇，也可以50买A7 Pro。完全没区别，所有参数都是玄学。我CSGO不会因为不是“大牌”就变强。
