印度军版网友讨论：印度会购买 F-35 吗？
正文翻译
Will India buy the F-35?
印度会购买 F-35 吗？
印度会购买 F-35 吗？
I don't know about the Air Force, but it's the best fighter jet for the Navy.
空军的情况我不知道，但它是海军最好的战斗机。
空军的情况我不知道，但它是海军最好的战斗机。
评论翻译
golden_sword_22
likes: 27
Most probably no, the dolts here have no idea what it means.
很可能不会，这里的一些蠢货根本不明白这意味着什么。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 27
Most probably no, the dolts here have no idea what it means.
很可能不会，这里的一些蠢货根本不明白这意味着什么。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
ma_ka_laadla
likes: 59
https://preview.redd.it/o6rt1odxx4je1.png?width=469&format=png&auto=webp&s=03314de86e132f57aa6599c50df1f3881df48c23
for the comfort of 4 years, we can't buy headache for 50 years
为了仅仅4年的舒适，我们不能购买长达50年的麻烦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 59
https://preview.redd.it/o6rt1odxx4je1.png?width=469&format=png&auto=webp&s=03314de86e132f57aa6599c50df1f3881df48c23
for the comfort of 4 years, we can't buy headache for 50 years
为了仅仅4年的舒适，我们不能购买长达50年的麻烦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
TapOk9232
likes: 1
Average Alpha Defense viewer after watching paid Russian propaganda:
Bro losing technological superiority to a politically unstable is very dangerous for us, I dont think Su-57 can one up the J-35 for one.
The situation in Pakistan makes them desperate enough to use any advantage to threaten India in terms of geopolitical affairs.
典型的“阿尔法防务”观众在看了付费的俄罗斯宣传后：
兄弟，失去对一个政治不稳定的国家的技术优势是非常危险的。我不认为 Su-57 能胜过歼-35。
巴基斯坦的局势让他们迫切地想利用任何优势，在地缘政治上威胁印度。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 1
Average Alpha Defense viewer after watching paid Russian propaganda:
Bro losing technological superiority to a politically unstable is very dangerous for us, I dont think Su-57 can one up the J-35 for one.
The situation in Pakistan makes them desperate enough to use any advantage to threaten India in terms of geopolitical affairs.
典型的“阿尔法防务”观众在看了付费的俄罗斯宣传后：
兄弟，失去对一个政治不稳定的国家的技术优势是非常危险的。我不认为 Su-57 能胜过歼-35。
巴基斯坦的局势让他们迫切地想利用任何优势，在地缘政治上威胁印度。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 1
Just 4 years?
“仅仅四年”？
likes: 1
Just 4 years?
“仅仅四年”？
TapOk9232
likes: 1
If you didnt know the youtuber Alpha defense, somehow thinks that after Trump is out of the office US will stop providing us with upgrades and easy spare parts.
Personally i think thats bs, US is a capitalist state profit is their number one target
如果你不知道，“阿尔法防务”这个油管频道不知怎么认为，特朗普卸任后，美国就会停止向我们提供升级和零配件。
我个人认为这是无稽之谈，美国是一个资本主义国家，利润至上。
likes: 1
If you didnt know the youtuber Alpha defense, somehow thinks that after Trump is out of the office US will stop providing us with upgrades and easy spare parts.
Personally i think thats bs, US is a capitalist state profit is their number one target
如果你不知道，“阿尔法防务”这个油管频道不知怎么认为，特朗普卸任后，美国就会停止向我们提供升级和零配件。
我个人认为这是无稽之谈，美国是一个资本主义国家，利润至上。
ok_yah_sure
likes: 1
The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
We should require WhatsApp University flair.
美国会在两国签订的合同到期后立即停止提供维修零件，而不是提前。
我们应该要求标注“WhatsApp 大学”的徽章。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 1
The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
We should require WhatsApp University flair.
美国会在两国签订的合同到期后立即停止提供维修零件，而不是提前。
我们应该要求标注“WhatsApp 大学”的徽章。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
TapOk9232
likes: 1
>The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
F-16 is out of service from major NATO countries how do you think pakistani and turkish F-16s are in service. Hell how do you think that Greece and Turkey still operate an ancient F-4 fleet? Did they pull those MRO services out of their ass?
>We should require WhatsApp University flair.
Ad Hominems arent funny anymore.
“美国会在两国签订的合同到期后立即停止提供维修零件，而不是提前。”
北约主要国家的F-16已经退役，你觉得巴基斯坦和土耳其的F-16是怎么还在服役的？ 希腊和土耳其又是如何继续操作老旧的F-4机队的？难道他们凭空变出了那些维护、维修和大修 (MRO) 服务？
“我们应该要求标注“WhatsApp 大学”的徽章。”
人身攻击已经不好笑了。
likes: 1
>The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
F-16 is out of service from major NATO countries how do you think pakistani and turkish F-16s are in service. Hell how do you think that Greece and Turkey still operate an ancient F-4 fleet? Did they pull those MRO services out of their ass?
>We should require WhatsApp University flair.
Ad Hominems arent funny anymore.
“美国会在两国签订的合同到期后立即停止提供维修零件，而不是提前。”
北约主要国家的F-16已经退役，你觉得巴基斯坦和土耳其的F-16是怎么还在服役的？ 希腊和土耳其又是如何继续操作老旧的F-4机队的？难道他们凭空变出了那些维护、维修和大修 (MRO) 服务？
“我们应该要求标注“WhatsApp 大学”的徽章。”
人身攻击已经不好笑了。
Severe-Pen-1504
likes: 54
When did so many anti AMCA mofos infiltrate this sub
什么时候这么多反对 AMCA 的白痴渗透到这个版块里了？
likes: 54
When did so many anti AMCA mofos infiltrate this sub
什么时候这么多反对 AMCA 的白痴渗透到这个版块里了？
ScreaminEagles101
likes: 2
They're not deluded by laughable promises of first flight by 2028
他们没有被2028年首飞这种可笑的承诺蒙蔽。
likes: 2
They're not deluded by laughable promises of first flight by 2028
他们没有被2028年首飞这种可笑的承诺蒙蔽。
Thin-Bison3363
likes: 30
Simple Answer by the quote in geopolitics world. " Becoming a friend or ally of America is far more dangerous than becoming an enemy of America "
地缘政治学界的一句名言给出了简单的答案：“成为美国的朋友或盟友，比成为美国的敌人要危险得多。”
likes: 30
Simple Answer by the quote in geopolitics world. " Becoming a friend or ally of America is far more dangerous than becoming an enemy of America "
地缘政治学界的一句名言给出了简单的答案：“成为美国的朋友或盟友，比成为美国的敌人要危险得多。”
Own_Willingness_8897
likes: 12
Kid, in geopolitics, no one is a permanent enemy or friend—everyone has their own interests. Also, India has been backstabbed by Russia multiple times, as Russia has sold its weapons to China and Pakistan.
孩子，在地缘政治中，没有永远的敌人，也没有永远的朋友，只有各自的利益。而且，俄罗斯曾多次背后捅印度刀子，把武器卖给中国和巴基斯坦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 12
Kid, in geopolitics, no one is a permanent enemy or friend—everyone has their own interests. Also, India has been backstabbed by Russia multiple times, as Russia has sold its weapons to China and Pakistan.
孩子，在地缘政治中，没有永远的敌人，也没有永远的朋友，只有各自的利益。而且，俄罗斯曾多次背后捅印度刀子，把武器卖给中国和巴基斯坦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
golden_sword_22
likes: 3
US is literally hosting khalistani terrorist in protection, not just now but long before the entire pannun saga.
Russia for all it's flaws is firmly focused in Europe now, and at least hasn't hosted and funded Indian separatist.
美国实际上是在保护卡利斯坦恐怖分子，不仅是现在，早在整个潘农事件之前就是如此。
俄罗斯虽然有其缺点，但现在坚定地专注于欧洲，而且至少没有接纳和资助印度的分裂分子。
likes: 3
US is literally hosting khalistani terrorist in protection, not just now but long before the entire pannun saga.
Russia for all it's flaws is firmly focused in Europe now, and at least hasn't hosted and funded Indian separatist.
美国实际上是在保护卡利斯坦恐怖分子，不仅是现在，早在整个潘农事件之前就是如此。
俄罗斯虽然有其缺点，但现在坚定地专注于欧洲，而且至少没有接纳和资助印度的分裂分子。
noobwithguns
likes: 7
Oooo, look america, america bad, oooooo, run.
America will come for you in your sleep. Ooooo scary america.
哦，看看，美国，美国坏坏，哦哦哦，快跑。
美国会在你睡觉的时候来找你，哦哦，可怕的美国。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 7
Oooo, look america, america bad, oooooo, run.
America will come for you in your sleep. Ooooo scary america.
哦，看看，美国，美国坏坏，哦哦哦，快跑。
美国会在你睡觉的时候来找你，哦哦，可怕的美国。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
WoodpeckerNo6598
likes: 17
Lol you’re trying so hard here
The Americans have the ability to bring any nation to their knees.
Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
笑死我了，你在这里表演得真卖力。
美国人有能力让任何国家屈服。
看看他们是如何削弱光辉战斗机的。
看看他们对阿帕奇直升机做了什么。
看看他们是如何有计划地摧毁日本航空工业的。
likes: 17
Lol you’re trying so hard here
The Americans have the ability to bring any nation to their knees.
Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
笑死我了，你在这里表演得真卖力。
美国人有能力让任何国家屈服。
看看他们是如何削弱光辉战斗机的。
看看他们对阿帕奇直升机做了什么。
看看他们是如何有计划地摧毁日本航空工业的。
JGGarfield
likes: 4
> Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
A South Korean supplier not being able to deliver engine parts means the US crippled the Tejas?
> Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
What have they done other than sell India equipment that improves its conventional balance with Pakistan and China here?
> Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
How have they done this? Do you think the EU, China, and Russia don't seek to knock out their commercial competitors?
“看看他们是如何削弱光辉战斗机的”
韩国供应商无法交付发动机零件就意味着美国削弱了光辉战斗机？
“看看他们对阿帕奇直升机做了什么？”
除了向印度出售可以改善其与巴基斯坦和中国之间常规军力平衡的装备外，他们还做了什么？
“看看他们是如何有计划地摧毁日本航空工业的”
他们是怎么做到的？你觉得欧盟、中国和俄罗斯不会想方设法击垮他们的商业竞争对手吗？
likes: 4
> Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
A South Korean supplier not being able to deliver engine parts means the US crippled the Tejas?
> Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
What have they done other than sell India equipment that improves its conventional balance with Pakistan and China here?
> Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
How have they done this? Do you think the EU, China, and Russia don't seek to knock out their commercial competitors?
“看看他们是如何削弱光辉战斗机的”
韩国供应商无法交付发动机零件就意味着美国削弱了光辉战斗机？
“看看他们对阿帕奇直升机做了什么？”
除了向印度出售可以改善其与巴基斯坦和中国之间常规军力平衡的装备外，他们还做了什么？
“看看他们是如何有计划地摧毁日本航空工业的”
他们是怎么做到的？你觉得欧盟、中国和俄罗斯不会想方设法击垮他们的商业竞争对手吗？
golden_sword_22
likes: 4
Not trusting Americans as dolts and getting excited like for f35 would be a start.
不像个傻瓜一样信任美国人，不对F-35感到过度兴奋，这才是个好的开始。
likes: 4
Not trusting Americans as dolts and getting excited like for f35 would be a start.
不像个傻瓜一样信任美国人，不对F-35感到过度兴奋，这才是个好的开始。
noobwithguns
likes: 3
OK sir, You keep waiting for AMCA while pakistan conducts air strikes with platforms we can't fight.
How many sigma male jaishanker edits have been stuck in post production in the kinemaster app of your phone?
好吧，先生，您继续等着国产先进中型战斗机（AMCA），而巴基斯坦却用我们无法匹敌的平台发动空袭。
在你手机的 kinemaster 应用程序里，有多少西格玛男神苏杰生的剪辑还在后期制作中？
likes: 3
OK sir, You keep waiting for AMCA while pakistan conducts air strikes with platforms we can't fight.
How many sigma male jaishanker edits have been stuck in post production in the kinemaster app of your phone?
好吧，先生，您继续等着国产先进中型战斗机（AMCA），而巴基斯坦却用我们无法匹敌的平台发动空袭。
在你手机的 kinemaster 应用程序里，有多少西格玛男神苏杰生的剪辑还在后期制作中？
golden_sword_22
likes: 4
Jaishankar is the moron who is letting American push strykers down our throat, I am not sure why his scrawny ass is in discussion.
Is Pakistan operating KAAN or J35 today ? No. Would it next 5 years ? Maybe, few dozen at best their broke ass can't afford more.
Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much, you don't have to have 5th gen fighter to counter another 5th gen fighter.
IRL you delopy VHF & UHF in large numbers in your air defence network and than vector your 4th gen aircraft to them, this is how China and Russia have been operating.
苏杰生就是那个让美国把斯崔克装甲车硬塞给我们的蠢货，我真不明白为什么要讨论他。
巴基斯坦现在有操作KAAN（土耳其第五代战斗机项目）或者歼-35吗？没有。未来五年会有吗？也许吧，最多也就几十架，他们穷得要死，买不起更多。
那几十架飞机并不能改变力量平衡，你也不一定非要用第五代战斗机才能对抗另一架第五代战斗机。
实际情况是，你可以在防空网络中大量部署甚高频和超高频雷达，然后引导你的第四代战斗机去拦截，中国和俄罗斯就是这么做的。
likes: 4
Jaishankar is the moron who is letting American push strykers down our throat, I am not sure why his scrawny ass is in discussion.
Is Pakistan operating KAAN or J35 today ? No. Would it next 5 years ? Maybe, few dozen at best their broke ass can't afford more.
Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much, you don't have to have 5th gen fighter to counter another 5th gen fighter.
IRL you delopy VHF & UHF in large numbers in your air defence network and than vector your 4th gen aircraft to them, this is how China and Russia have been operating.
苏杰生就是那个让美国把斯崔克装甲车硬塞给我们的蠢货，我真不明白为什么要讨论他。
巴基斯坦现在有操作KAAN（土耳其第五代战斗机项目）或者歼-35吗？没有。未来五年会有吗？也许吧，最多也就几十架，他们穷得要死，买不起更多。
那几十架飞机并不能改变力量平衡，你也不一定非要用第五代战斗机才能对抗另一架第五代战斗机。
实际情况是，你可以在防空网络中大量部署甚高频和超高频雷达，然后引导你的第四代战斗机去拦截，中国和俄罗斯就是这么做的。
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 3
>Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much,
IAF already doesn't have a significant edge on PAF but you think a few dozen 5th gen fighters doesn't change anything?
“这几十架飞机对力量平衡的改变不大”
印度空军本来就没有对巴基斯坦空军有显著的优势，你却认为几十架第五代战斗机不会带来任何改变？
likes: 3
>Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much,
IAF already doesn't have a significant edge on PAF but you think a few dozen 5th gen fighters doesn't change anything?
“这几十架飞机对力量平衡的改变不大”
印度空军本来就没有对巴基斯坦空军有显著的优势，你却认为几十架第五代战斗机不会带来任何改变？
golden_sword_22
likes: 4
No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much. Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
没错，就像巴基斯坦购买歼-10C没有带来太大改变一样。我们购买F-35也不会对中国带来任何改变。
数量本身就是一种质量，而且在真正的4.5代战斗机数量上，我们远超巴基斯坦空军，他们的机队一半都是幻影3/5和歼-7这种老旧飞机。
likes: 4
No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much. Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
没错，就像巴基斯坦购买歼-10C没有带来太大改变一样。我们购买F-35也不会对中国带来任何改变。
数量本身就是一种质量，而且在真正的4.5代战斗机数量上，我们远超巴基斯坦空军，他们的机队一半都是幻影3/5和歼-7这种老旧飞机。
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 2
>No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much
It did. Besides rafale, J10 outclasses everything in IAF inventory.
>Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Because we weren't near peer before but could be a significant deterant now
>Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
It means shit when we cannot field half our jets to look after the border with China
“没错，就像巴基斯坦购买歼-10C没有带来太大改变一样”
歼-10C确实带来了改变。 除了阵风战斗机外，歼-10C在各个方面都胜过印度空军的现有战机。
“我们购买F-35也不会对中国带来任何改变。”
因为我们之前还不是势均力敌的对手，但现在可以成为一个重要的威慑力量。
“数量本身就是一种质量，而且在真正的4.5代战斗机数量上，我们远超巴基斯坦空军，他们的机队一半都是幻影3/5和歼-7这种老旧飞机。”
如果我们连一半的飞机都无法部署到中印边境，那说这些又有什么意义？
likes: 2
>No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much
It did. Besides rafale, J10 outclasses everything in IAF inventory.
>Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Because we weren't near peer before but could be a significant deterant now
>Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
It means shit when we cannot field half our jets to look after the border with China
“没错，就像巴基斯坦购买歼-10C没有带来太大改变一样”
歼-10C确实带来了改变。 除了阵风战斗机外，歼-10C在各个方面都胜过印度空军的现有战机。
“我们购买F-35也不会对中国带来任何改变。”
因为我们之前还不是势均力敌的对手，但现在可以成为一个重要的威慑力量。
“数量本身就是一种质量，而且在真正的4.5代战斗机数量上，我们远超巴基斯坦空军，他们的机队一半都是幻影3/5和歼-7这种老旧飞机。”
如果我们连一半的飞机都无法部署到中印边境，那说这些又有什么意义？
sext_Addition_5670
likes: 1
A few stealth aircraft do change the balance hence why everyone wants them…….if what you said was true everyone would forgo stealth, because that just makes things costlier
少量隐形飞机就能改变力量平衡，这就是为什么每个人都想要它们...... 如果你说的是真的，大家都会放弃隐形能力，因为它只会增加成本。
likes: 1
A few stealth aircraft do change the balance hence why everyone wants them…….if what you said was true everyone would forgo stealth, because that just makes things costlier
少量隐形飞机就能改变力量平衡，这就是为什么每个人都想要它们...... 如果你说的是真的，大家都会放弃隐形能力，因为它只会增加成本。
WoodpeckerNo6598
likes: 7
They will do it either way ,do you really think USA would want India to have an independent MIC? The only way forward is indigenous I have never been a strong advocate of the SU 57 either….we have to build a robust rocket force and get our shit straight and relentlessly work on amca and also sign deal with RR or safran for engine development……. 2 squadrons of F35 won’t do shit in war with its availability rate of just about 50%….Our HCMs will be enough to keep enemies at bay
不管怎样，他们都会这么做的。你真觉得美国希望印度拥有一个独立的国防工业吗？ 唯一的出路是自主研发。 我从来都不是苏-57 的坚定支持者…… 我们必须建立一支强大的火箭军，理清头绪，坚持不懈地研发 AMCA，还要与罗尔斯·罗伊斯或赛峰集团签订发动机开发协议…… 仅仅两个中队的 F-35 在战争中起不了什么作用，它们的可用率只有 50% 左右…… 我们的 HCM（重型反舰导弹）就足以震慑敌人。
likes: 7
They will do it either way ,do you really think USA would want India to have an independent MIC? The only way forward is indigenous I have never been a strong advocate of the SU 57 either….we have to build a robust rocket force and get our shit straight and relentlessly work on amca and also sign deal with RR or safran for engine development……. 2 squadrons of F35 won’t do shit in war with its availability rate of just about 50%….Our HCMs will be enough to keep enemies at bay
不管怎样，他们都会这么做的。你真觉得美国希望印度拥有一个独立的国防工业吗？ 唯一的出路是自主研发。 我从来都不是苏-57 的坚定支持者…… 我们必须建立一支强大的火箭军，理清头绪，坚持不懈地研发 AMCA，还要与罗尔斯·罗伊斯或赛峰集团签订发动机开发协议…… 仅仅两个中队的 F-35 在战争中起不了什么作用，它们的可用率只有 50% 左右…… 我们的 HCM（重型反舰导弹）就足以震慑敌人。
Spacewolf1234567890
likes: 1
You realize most 4th gen fighters have an availability of 60-70% right? And as it stands the F-35A costs $82.5 million compared to India’s Rafale cost of $230 million. Meaning you could literally make back availability in spades by buying almost 3 times as many F-35’s for every Rafale, which would be like 100+ F-35’s if you converted India’s current 36 Rafale’s.
你难道不知道大多数四代机的可用率都有 60-70% 吗？而且就目前来看，F-35A 的成本是 8250 万美元，而印度的“阵风”战斗机要 2.3 亿美元。这意味着你完全可以用买一架“阵风”的钱，买近三倍数量的 F-35，从而在可用率上获得碾压性的优势。如果用购买印度现有 36 架“阵风”的钱，可以购买超过 100 架 F-35。
likes: 1
You realize most 4th gen fighters have an availability of 60-70% right? And as it stands the F-35A costs $82.5 million compared to India’s Rafale cost of $230 million. Meaning you could literally make back availability in spades by buying almost 3 times as many F-35’s for every Rafale, which would be like 100+ F-35’s if you converted India’s current 36 Rafale’s.
你难道不知道大多数四代机的可用率都有 60-70% 吗？而且就目前来看，F-35A 的成本是 8250 万美元，而印度的“阵风”战斗机要 2.3 亿美元。这意味着你完全可以用买一架“阵风”的钱，买近三倍数量的 F-35，从而在可用率上获得碾压性的优势。如果用购买印度现有 36 架“阵风”的钱，可以购买超过 100 架 F-35。
Imperialepanzer-4
likes: 1
import of 5th gen is needed till amca comes. f 35 is the best option. and more than 2-3 squadrons of f 35 or su 57 will kill amca
在 AMCA 问世之前，有必要进口第五代战机，F-35 是最佳选择。但是购买超过两到三个中队的 F-35 或苏-57 会扼杀 AMCA。
likes: 1
import of 5th gen is needed till amca comes. f 35 is the best option. and more than 2-3 squadrons of f 35 or su 57 will kill amca
在 AMCA 问世之前，有必要进口第五代战机，F-35 是最佳选择。但是购买超过两到三个中队的 F-35 或苏-57 会扼杀 AMCA。
golden_sword_22
likes: 7
AMCA can be production in under 5 years, if GoI is serious unfortunately GoI isn't serious.
如果印度政府是认真的，AMCA 完全可以在 5 年内投产，可惜他们并不认真。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 7
AMCA can be production in under 5 years, if GoI is serious unfortunately GoI isn't serious.
如果印度政府是认真的，AMCA 完全可以在 5 年内投产，可惜他们并不认真。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 4
>in under 5 years,
You have more trust in ADA than ADA itself
“五年内就能投产”
你对印度国防研究与发展组织 (DRDO) 下属的航空发展局 (ADA) 的信任程度超过了他们自己。
likes: 4
>in under 5 years,
You have more trust in ADA than ADA itself
“五年内就能投产”
你对印度国防研究与发展组织 (DRDO) 下属的航空发展局 (ADA) 的信任程度超过了他们自己。
golden_sword_22
likes: 1
The reality is Modi is a sellout and thus we might get f35, the US foreign policy wants a major war in which China exhaust itself.
India is the perfect candidate to be an Asian ukraine, hence the noise about interoperability and co-production even when it makes 0 sense like stryker.
现实是，莫迪就是一个卖国贼，所以我们才可能会买 F-35。 而美国的对外政策则是希望爆发一场大型战争，让中国筋疲力尽。
印度是充当“亚洲乌克兰”的最佳人选，所以才会有关于互操作性和合作生产的炒作，即便像斯崔克装甲车这样的项目毫无意义。
likes: 1
The reality is Modi is a sellout and thus we might get f35, the US foreign policy wants a major war in which China exhaust itself.
India is the perfect candidate to be an Asian ukraine, hence the noise about interoperability and co-production even when it makes 0 sense like stryker.
现实是，莫迪就是一个卖国贼，所以我们才可能会买 F-35。 而美国的对外政策则是希望爆发一场大型战争，让中国筋疲力尽。
印度是充当“亚洲乌克兰”的最佳人选，所以才会有关于互操作性和合作生产的炒作，即便像斯崔克装甲车这样的项目毫无意义。
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 3
How is that even relevant to this thread about ADA?
这和咱们讨论航空发展局（ADA）的主题有什么关系？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 3
How is that even relevant to this thread about ADA?
这和咱们讨论航空发展局（ADA）的主题有什么关系？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
golden_sword_22
likes: 2
You are mocking the idea of resources to ADA, I am pointing out that sell outs are ready to spend hundreds of billions importing weapons but won't spend 500 million to establish an ONERA type facility in India.
你是在嘲笑为航空发展局提供资源的想法，我是在强调这些卖国贼宁愿花费数千亿美元进口武器，也不愿意花费 5 亿美元在印度建立一个类似 ONERA（法国国家航空航天研究院）的机构。
likes: 2
You are mocking the idea of resources to ADA, I am pointing out that sell outs are ready to spend hundreds of billions importing weapons but won't spend 500 million to establish an ONERA type facility in India.
你是在嘲笑为航空发展局提供资源的想法，我是在强调这些卖国贼宁愿花费数千亿美元进口武器，也不愿意花费 5 亿美元在印度建立一个类似 ONERA（法国国家航空航天研究院）的机构。
sext_Addition_5670
likes: 1
If this is how you think why even use reddit an American social media platform an extension of American soft power…..
如果你是这样想的，那你为什么还要用 Reddit？这可是美国社交媒体平台，是美国软实力的延伸……
likes: 1
If this is how you think why even use reddit an American social media platform an extension of American soft power…..
如果你是这样想的，那你为什么还要用 Reddit？这可是美国社交媒体平台，是美国软实力的延伸……
khatri_masterrace
likes: 11
It is better to buy F-35 than Rafale as it will deter China & remain relevant for longer making better use of money spent however this is provided no comprises to AMCA program are made.
购买 F-35 比购买“阵风”要好，因为这样可以威慑中国，并使其在更长时间内保持其相关性，更好地利用资金。但前提是不能对 AMCA 项目进行任何妥协。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 11
It is better to buy F-35 than Rafale as it will deter China & remain relevant for longer making better use of money spent however this is provided no comprises to AMCA program are made.
购买 F-35 比购买“阵风”要好，因为这样可以威慑中国，并使其在更长时间内保持其相关性，更好地利用资金。但前提是不能对 AMCA 项目进行任何妥协。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Majhisatakli
likes: 10
LMao
When you buy rafale, you own the aircraft
When you buy f-35, you join a program in which usa have you by balls
笑死了
买“阵风”你就是拥有了这架飞机
买 F-35，你就加入了一个美国能捏着你命根子的项目
likes: 10
LMao
When you buy rafale, you own the aircraft
When you buy f-35, you join a program in which usa have you by balls
笑死了
买“阵风”你就是拥有了这架飞机
买 F-35，你就加入了一个美国能捏着你命根子的项目
annoyinglyAddicted
likes: 8
The French have already denied India's request for radar source code to integrate Astra series on Rafale.
法国已经拒绝了印度关于将阿斯特拉系列导弹整合到“阵风”战斗机上的雷达源代码请求。
likes: 8
The French have already denied India's request for radar source code to integrate Astra series on Rafale.
法国已经拒绝了印度关于将阿斯特拉系列导弹整合到“阵风”战斗机上的雷达源代码请求。
Realistic_Parsnip694
likes: 12
I don't think the Indian government will make itself dependent on the American government. We should remember the conditions America imposed on the Pakistani government for using the F-16s. Plus I don't think america will allow f-35 to co-exist with s-400 missiles (it will put russia in advantage as russia doesn't have the tech to track f-35).
我认为印度政府不会让自己依赖于美国政府。我们应该记得美国当年对巴基斯坦政府使用F-16战斗机所施加的种种限制。而且我认为美国不会允许F-35和S-400导弹系统共存 (这将使俄罗斯占优势，因为俄罗斯没有追踪F-35的技术)。
likes: 12
I don't think the Indian government will make itself dependent on the American government. We should remember the conditions America imposed on the Pakistani government for using the F-16s. Plus I don't think america will allow f-35 to co-exist with s-400 missiles (it will put russia in advantage as russia doesn't have the tech to track f-35).
我认为印度政府不会让自己依赖于美国政府。我们应该记得美国当年对巴基斯坦政府使用F-16战斗机所施加的种种限制。而且我认为美国不会允许F-35和S-400导弹系统共存 (这将使俄罗斯占优势，因为俄罗斯没有追踪F-35的技术)。
SIR_COCK_LORD69
likes: 14
Fuck depending on the americans, we depend on our russian and french overlords for all our weapon needs.
去他妈的所谓依赖美国人，我们的所有武器需求都依赖于我们的俄罗斯和法国爸爸。
likes: 14
Fuck depending on the americans, we depend on our russian and french overlords for all our weapon needs.
去他妈的所谓依赖美国人，我们的所有武器需求都依赖于我们的俄罗斯和法国爸爸。
Realistic_Parsnip694
likes: 3
What else can we do.. atleast Russians will be sharing the source code for modifications as per our need. Let's see what's gonna happen.
我们还能怎么样呢？至少俄罗斯会分享源代码，以便根据我们的需要进行修改。让我们拭目以待吧。
likes: 3
What else can we do.. atleast Russians will be sharing the source code for modifications as per our need. Let's see what's gonna happen.
我们还能怎么样呢？至少俄罗斯会分享源代码，以便根据我们的需要进行修改。让我们拭目以待吧。
golden_sword_22
likes: 4
Russians and French don't impose preconditions on their weapons usage, why is this so difficult to understand ?
俄罗斯和法国不会在使用武器时附加前提条件，这一点为什么就这么难理解？
likes: 4
Russians and French don't impose preconditions on their weapons usage, why is this so difficult to understand ?
俄罗斯和法国不会在使用武器时附加前提条件，这一点为什么就这么难理解？
JGGarfield
likes: 11
What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
India's threats are obvious: Pakistan and China. If the IAF can't use the jets against these targets its a total non-starter as a purchase.
This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
美国对 P-8“海神”反潜巡逻机提出了什么前提条件？ 对阿帕奇直升机提出了什么前提条件？
印度的威胁是显而易见的：巴基斯坦和中国。如果印度空军不能用这些战机攻击这些目标，购买它们就毫无意义。
这种前提条件理论听起来像是事后诸葛亮，只是为了合理化某些人错误地认为 F-35 不会是印度的选择。
likes: 11
What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
India's threats are obvious: Pakistan and China. If the IAF can't use the jets against these targets its a total non-starter as a purchase.
This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
美国对 P-8“海神”反潜巡逻机提出了什么前提条件？ 对阿帕奇直升机提出了什么前提条件？
印度的威胁是显而易见的：巴基斯坦和中国。如果印度空军不能用这些战机攻击这些目标，购买它们就毫无意义。
这种前提条件理论听起来像是事后诸葛亮，只是为了合理化某些人错误地认为 F-35 不会是印度的选择。
golden_sword_22
likes: 2
>What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
A lot I imagine, considering INS jalashwa (ex USS trenton) a ship built in 1968 and sold second hand to India in 2007 had the condition of not being used in offensive operations.
>This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
F35 literally transmits sensitive data everytime it flies out, it's not an option for India simple reason that India has claimed it wants strategic independence.
Otherwise f35 was on offer even when hillary Clinton was secetary of state.
“美国对 P-8 海神飞机提出了哪些先决条件？美国对阿帕奇直升机提出了哪些先决条件？”
我想有很多，考虑到 INS Jalashwa（前身为 USS Trenton）这艘 1968 年建造的军舰，在 2007 年二手卖给印度时，都有不能用于进攻行动的限制。
“这种先决条件理论听起来像是事后诸葛亮，只是为了合理化某些人错误地认为 F-35 不会是印度的选择。”
F-35 每次飞行都会传输敏感数据，印度追求战略独立，因此 F-35 不会是印度的选项。
否则，早在希拉里·克林顿担任国务卿时，美国就愿意向印度出售 F-35。
likes: 2
>What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
A lot I imagine, considering INS jalashwa (ex USS trenton) a ship built in 1968 and sold second hand to India in 2007 had the condition of not being used in offensive operations.
>This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
F35 literally transmits sensitive data everytime it flies out, it's not an option for India simple reason that India has claimed it wants strategic independence.
Otherwise f35 was on offer even when hillary Clinton was secetary of state.
“美国对 P-8 海神飞机提出了哪些先决条件？美国对阿帕奇直升机提出了哪些先决条件？”
我想有很多，考虑到 INS Jalashwa（前身为 USS Trenton）这艘 1968 年建造的军舰，在 2007 年二手卖给印度时，都有不能用于进攻行动的限制。
“这种先决条件理论听起来像是事后诸葛亮，只是为了合理化某些人错误地认为 F-35 不会是印度的选择。”
F-35 每次飞行都会传输敏感数据，印度追求战略独立，因此 F-35 不会是印度的选项。
否则，早在希拉里·克林顿担任国务卿时，美国就愿意向印度出售 F-35。
AIM-120-AMRAAM
likes: 1
Ok so let me ask you this question to test your depth.
Can India integrate Astra on Rafale or modify rafale?
好，那么为了考察一下你对这件事了解有多深，我问你一个问题。
印度是否能在“阵风”上整合阿斯特拉导弹，或者对“阵风”进行改装？
likes: 1
Ok so let me ask you this question to test your depth.
Can India integrate Astra on Rafale or modify rafale?
好，那么为了考察一下你对这件事了解有多深，我问你一个问题。
印度是否能在“阵风”上整合阿斯特拉导弹，或者对“阵风”进行改装？
golden_sword_22
likes: 3
Yes for a very expensive price though, unlike su30 we don't have mission computer source code access but aastra is already in talks of integration.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2024/astra-mki-integration-strengthens-rafale-fighter-capabilities-through-dassault-and-iaf-collaboration
Although the price may a force a rethink on part of IAF.
可以，但价格会非常昂贵。与苏-30 不同的是，我们没有任务计算机的源代码访问权限，但阿斯特拉导弹的整合已经提上议程。
虽然这个价格可能会迫使印度空军重新考虑。
likes: 3
Yes for a very expensive price though, unlike su30 we don't have mission computer source code access but aastra is already in talks of integration.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2024/astra-mki-integration-strengthens-rafale-fighter-capabilities-through-dassault-and-iaf-collaboration
Although the price may a force a rethink on part of IAF.
可以，但价格会非常昂贵。与苏-30 不同的是，我们没有任务计算机的源代码访问权限，但阿斯特拉导弹的整合已经提上议程。
虽然这个价格可能会迫使印度空军重新考虑。
ConfectionSame2076
likes: 7
For Navy i totally agree with F35C but no way for air force
对于海军，我完全赞同购买F-35C，但空军绝不可能。
likes: 7
For Navy i totally agree with F35C but no way for air force
对于海军，我完全赞同购买F-35C，但空军绝不可能。
Adeptus_Aerarium
likes: 8
Since when did we have CATOBAR capable carrier?
我们什么时候拥有了具备弹射起飞和拦阻降落 (CATOBAR) 能力的航母？
likes: 8
Since when did we have CATOBAR capable carrier?
我们什么时候拥有了具备弹射起飞和拦阻降落 (CATOBAR) 能力的航母？
RandomRedditor1405
likes: 3
The f-35b's that the uk uses can take off from the ski jumps of their carriers (our carriers use ski jumps too) plus they can take off vertically.
The main issue is that the payload capacity is less for vertical takeoff
英国使用的 F-35B 战机可以从航母的滑跃甲板上起飞（我们的航母也使用滑跃甲板），而且还可以垂直起飞。
主要问题是垂直起飞的有效载荷能力较低。
likes: 3
The f-35b's that the uk uses can take off from the ski jumps of their carriers (our carriers use ski jumps too) plus they can take off vertically.
The main issue is that the payload capacity is less for vertical takeoff
英国使用的 F-35B 战机可以从航母的滑跃甲板上起飞（我们的航母也使用滑跃甲板），而且还可以垂直起飞。
主要问题是垂直起飞的有效载荷能力较低。
Reasonable-Film230
likes: 3
Not at all, we think the people at MoD are fools
根本不可能，我们觉得国防部的人都是傻子。
likes: 3
Not at all, we think the people at MoD are fools
根本不可能，我们觉得国防部的人都是傻子。
AsleepWeb5373
likes: 2
I mean they kinda are tbh
我意思是，他们在某种程度上还真是。
likes: 2
I mean they kinda are tbh
我意思是，他们在某种程度上还真是。
TerribleAsparagus255
likes: 3
101% i can bet
我可以百分之百地肯定。
likes: 3
101% i can bet
我可以百分之百地肯定。
Bubbly-Fly-9867
likes: 3
India should buy 80 F-35s. 36 for AF. 36 c variants for the NAVY. and 8 b variants for the naval special forces.
印度应该购买 80 架 F-35，其中 36 架为空军，36 架 C 型给海军，8 架 B 型给海军特种部队。
likes: 3
India should buy 80 F-35s. 36 for AF. 36 c variants for the NAVY. and 8 b variants for the naval special forces.
印度应该购买 80 架 F-35，其中 36 架为空军，36 架 C 型给海军，8 架 B 型给海军特种部队。
Raptordvz1
likes: 3
Nah they won't give it if we only need 40 f35s (with many restrictions) they will bundle it with f21 that's bad deal. Better go for 2 squads of su57 and work on amca on mission mode. No other option is viable. But yeah there are so many american slaves here recently.
PS would have been better if we were in a better position where we were not desperate for a stop gap but that's our present condition
*Just make one thread for f35 why make 100s of post ?*
不可能，如果我们只需要 40 架 F-35（并且有诸多限制），他们不会卖给我们的。他们会把它和 F-21 捆绑销售，那可就亏大了。不如买两个中队的苏-57，然后全速开发 AMCA。没有其他可行的选择了。不过最近这儿美国走狗可真不少。
另外，如果我们状况更好，不用那么急着找替代方案就好了，但这就是我们现在的处境。
*只需要为 F-35 开一个帖子就行了，为什么发这么多？*
likes: 3
Nah they won't give it if we only need 40 f35s (with many restrictions) they will bundle it with f21 that's bad deal. Better go for 2 squads of su57 and work on amca on mission mode. No other option is viable. But yeah there are so many american slaves here recently.
PS would have been better if we were in a better position where we were not desperate for a stop gap but that's our present condition
*Just make one thread for f35 why make 100s of post ?*
不可能，如果我们只需要 40 架 F-35（并且有诸多限制），他们不会卖给我们的。他们会把它和 F-21 捆绑销售，那可就亏大了。不如买两个中队的苏-57，然后全速开发 AMCA。没有其他可行的选择了。不过最近这儿美国走狗可真不少。
另外，如果我们状况更好，不用那么急着找替代方案就好了，但这就是我们现在的处境。
*只需要为 F-35 开一个帖子就行了，为什么发这么多？*
Powerful-Station-967
likes: 1
We cannot forsake the need for our own 5th gen aircraft. There is no alternative to that. Buying F35s in response to Pakistan's fifth-gen deal is not an ideal choice. We have to invest more money, time and research in AMCA. It's always the initial efforts that's the toughest. Once the ecosystem is built, its easy to build more of it/upgrade/modify it.
我们不能放弃自主研发第五代战机的需求，那是没有替代方案的。为了应对巴基斯坦购买五代机的行为而购买 F-35 并不是一个理想的选择，我们应该在 AMCA 项目上投入更多的资金、时间和研发力量。最初的阶段总是最艰难的。一旦生态系统建立起来，后续的建造、升级和改装都会变得容易。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
likes: 1
We cannot forsake the need for our own 5th gen aircraft. There is no alternative to that. Buying F35s in response to Pakistan's fifth-gen deal is not an ideal choice. We have to invest more money, time and research in AMCA. It's always the initial efforts that's the toughest. Once the ecosystem is built, its easy to build more of it/upgrade/modify it.
我们不能放弃自主研发第五代战机的需求，那是没有替代方案的。为了应对巴基斯坦购买五代机的行为而购买 F-35 并不是一个理想的选择，我们应该在 AMCA 项目上投入更多的资金、时间和研发力量。最初的阶段总是最艰难的。一旦生态系统建立起来，后续的建造、升级和改装都会变得容易。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Limp_Bar_6384
likes: -5
Amca is already under development.
The F-22 (even superior than F-35 in many aspects) would only be a viable option if the U.S either manufactures it for export or transfers its technology.
However, from the U.S. perspective, both options remain highly unlikely
AMCA 已经在研发中了。
只有美国为出口而制造 F-22（在许多方面甚至优于 F-35），或者转让 F-22 的技术，购买 F-22 才是可行的选择。
然而，从美国的角度来看，这两种选择的可能性都很小。
likes: -5
Amca is already under development.
The F-22 (even superior than F-35 in many aspects) would only be a viable option if the U.S either manufactures it for export or transfers its technology.
However, from the U.S. perspective, both options remain highly unlikely
AMCA 已经在研发中了。
只有美国为出口而制造 F-22（在许多方面甚至优于 F-35），或者转让 F-22 的技术，购买 F-22 才是可行的选择。
然而，从美国的角度来看，这两种选择的可能性都很小。
noobwithguns
likes: 7
On god redditors will start campaigning for paper airplanes for the IAF because they are cheaper.
天啊，Reddit 网友们迟早要开始为印度空军的纸飞机摇旗呐喊，因为纸飞机更便宜。
likes: 7
On god redditors will start campaigning for paper airplanes for the IAF because they are cheaper.
天啊，Reddit 网友们迟早要开始为印度空军的纸飞机摇旗呐喊，因为纸飞机更便宜。
artekars
likes: 9
"But... But.... unlike F35 surely there will be ToT, in case of the paper airplanes, then using that we can make better planes than yamerica"
“但是……但是……与 F-35 不同的是，纸飞机肯定会有技术转让，这样我们就能造出比美帝更好的飞机了。”
likes: 9
"But... But.... unlike F35 surely there will be ToT, in case of the paper airplanes, then using that we can make better planes than yamerica"
“但是……但是……与 F-35 不同的是，纸飞机肯定会有技术转让，这样我们就能造出比美帝更好的飞机了。”
Limp_Bar_6384
likes: 5
Ok captain!!
Here is some information for those who want it
If the US sells the F-35 they’ll ensure maintenance hubs in India just like they did with Japan South Korea and Australia Meanwhile Turkey got kicked out of the program for buying S-400s proving how tightly the US controls access and we know how US subtly creates it's vasal states
Having the F-35 means relying on US approval for maintenance upgrades and spare parts which limits India’s strategic autonomy
The F-22 is superior but The Obey Amendment bans exports(for a obvious reasons) If the US ever revives an export variant which is unlikely but not impossible it could be a game-changer Unlike the F-35 the F-22 doesn’t rely on a global supply chain controlled by the US so it wouldn’t force India into long-term maintenance dependencies or require deep integration into US defense networks
This means India could operate it without worrying about geopolitical strings attached
The Su-57 is risky Limited production questionable stealth and potential CAATSA sanctions make it a political headache
Until AMCA is ready India needs a diplomatic approach modernize the fleet boost indigenous tech and make deals that don’t create long-term dependencies
Realistically, neither the F-22 nor F-35 is easily available, so India should focus on AMCA development while bridging the gap with Rafale upgrades or Su-57 (if diplomatic concerns are addressed).
好的，舰长！
以下是一些信息，供有需要的人参考：
如果美国出售 F-35，他们会确保在印度设立维护中心，就像他们对日本、韩国和澳大利亚所做的那样。与此同时，土耳其因为购买 S-400 防空导弹系统而被踢出该项目，这证明了美国对准入的控制有多严格，我们都知道美国是如何巧妙地建立它的藩属国的。
拥有 F-35 意味着在维护、升级和备件方面依赖美国的批准，这限制了印度的战略自主性。
F-22 性能更优越，但《奥贝修正案》禁止出口 (原因很明显)。 如果美国恢复出口型 F-22（虽然不太可能，但并非完全不可能），它可能会改变游戏规则。与 F-35 不同，F-22 不依赖于美国控制的全球供应链，因此它不会迫使印度长期依赖美国的维护，也不需要深度融入美国的国防网络。
这意味着印度可以在不担心地缘政治附加条件的情况下操作 F-22。
苏-57 有风险，产量有限，隐身能力令人怀疑，而且可能面临《以制裁反击美国敌人法案》 的制裁，这使其成为一个令人头疼的政治问题。
在 AMCA 准备就绪之前，印度需要采取外交手段，实现机队的现代化，提高本土技术，并达成不会造成长期依赖的交易。
从现实角度来看，无论是 F-22 还是 F-35 都不容易获得，因此印度应该专注于 AMCA 的研发，同时通过升级“阵风”或苏-57 (如果能解决外交问题) 来弥补这段时间的力量真空。
likes: 5
Ok captain!!
Here is some information for those who want it
If the US sells the F-35 they’ll ensure maintenance hubs in India just like they did with Japan South Korea and Australia Meanwhile Turkey got kicked out of the program for buying S-400s proving how tightly the US controls access and we know how US subtly creates it's vasal states
Having the F-35 means relying on US approval for maintenance upgrades and spare parts which limits India’s strategic autonomy
The F-22 is superior but The Obey Amendment bans exports(for a obvious reasons) If the US ever revives an export variant which is unlikely but not impossible it could be a game-changer Unlike the F-35 the F-22 doesn’t rely on a global supply chain controlled by the US so it wouldn’t force India into long-term maintenance dependencies or require deep integration into US defense networks
This means India could operate it without worrying about geopolitical strings attached
The Su-57 is risky Limited production questionable stealth and potential CAATSA sanctions make it a political headache
Until AMCA is ready India needs a diplomatic approach modernize the fleet boost indigenous tech and make deals that don’t create long-term dependencies
Realistically, neither the F-22 nor F-35 is easily available, so India should focus on AMCA development while bridging the gap with Rafale upgrades or Su-57 (if diplomatic concerns are addressed).
好的，舰长！
以下是一些信息，供有需要的人参考：
如果美国出售 F-35，他们会确保在印度设立维护中心，就像他们对日本、韩国和澳大利亚所做的那样。与此同时，土耳其因为购买 S-400 防空导弹系统而被踢出该项目，这证明了美国对准入的控制有多严格，我们都知道美国是如何巧妙地建立它的藩属国的。
拥有 F-35 意味着在维护、升级和备件方面依赖美国的批准，这限制了印度的战略自主性。
F-22 性能更优越，但《奥贝修正案》禁止出口 (原因很明显)。 如果美国恢复出口型 F-22（虽然不太可能，但并非完全不可能），它可能会改变游戏规则。与 F-35 不同，F-22 不依赖于美国控制的全球供应链，因此它不会迫使印度长期依赖美国的维护，也不需要深度融入美国的国防网络。
这意味着印度可以在不担心地缘政治附加条件的情况下操作 F-22。
苏-57 有风险，产量有限，隐身能力令人怀疑，而且可能面临《以制裁反击美国敌人法案》 的制裁，这使其成为一个令人头疼的政治问题。
在 AMCA 准备就绪之前，印度需要采取外交手段，实现机队的现代化，提高本土技术，并达成不会造成长期依赖的交易。
从现实角度来看，无论是 F-22 还是 F-35 都不容易获得，因此印度应该专注于 AMCA 的研发，同时通过升级“阵风”或苏-57 (如果能解决外交问题) 来弥补这段时间的力量真空。
noobwithguns
likes: 1
So you are comfortable with a terror state having an edge over the IAF for close to a decade if not more?
And its better to invest in a subpar piece of slop(compartively speaking) over a much much better product while also strengthening ties with the most powerful country in the world?
Rafael was annhilated by the F35 in friendly war games, so "bridging the gap" is not an option.
What's to say china won't put the screws to russia and stop our supply of spares? Considering only 60% of the SU30 is IC, It would be far lower in the SU57.
God the constant doomsday scenarios of you folk is exhausting. Acting as if the CDS would start taking orders from trump instead of murmu. On god, most of you know 2 things "To be a friend of america is deadlier than being a enemy of america" by henry kissinger and "strategic autonomy" and start yapping about it whenever america is mentioned.
The mere presence of the F35s is a bigger detterent than the actual combat damage it will inflict.
那么，您对一个恐怖主义国家拥有超过印度空军的优势感到心安理得，而且这种情况可能会持续十年甚至更长时间吗？
在加强与世界头号强国的关系的同时，投资一个次品（相对而言）比投资一个更好的产品更好吗？
在友好的军事演习中，“阵风”被 F-35 打得落花流水，所以说“弥补这段时间的力量真空”是不可能的。
我们怎么能确定中国不会给俄罗斯施压，断了我们的备件供应呢？考虑到苏-30 国产化的比例只有 60%，苏-57 肯定会更低。
老天，你们这些人整天在那杞人忧天，我都快听吐了。说得好像国防参谋长会听特朗普的命令，而不是听穆尔穆的命令似的。 很多人就知道背诵基辛格那句“做美国的朋友比做美国的敌人更危险”以及“战略自主性”，然后只要一提到美国就开始说教。
即使不考虑 F-35 实际造成的作战伤害，它的存在本身就是一种强大的威慑力量。
likes: 1
So you are comfortable with a terror state having an edge over the IAF for close to a decade if not more?
And its better to invest in a subpar piece of slop(compartively speaking) over a much much better product while also strengthening ties with the most powerful country in the world?
Rafael was annhilated by the F35 in friendly war games, so "bridging the gap" is not an option.
What's to say china won't put the screws to russia and stop our supply of spares? Considering only 60% of the SU30 is IC, It would be far lower in the SU57.
God the constant doomsday scenarios of you folk is exhausting. Acting as if the CDS would start taking orders from trump instead of murmu. On god, most of you know 2 things "To be a friend of america is deadlier than being a enemy of america" by henry kissinger and "strategic autonomy" and start yapping about it whenever america is mentioned.
The mere presence of the F35s is a bigger detterent than the actual combat damage it will inflict.
那么，您对一个恐怖主义国家拥有超过印度空军的优势感到心安理得，而且这种情况可能会持续十年甚至更长时间吗？
在加强与世界头号强国的关系的同时，投资一个次品（相对而言）比投资一个更好的产品更好吗？
在友好的军事演习中，“阵风”被 F-35 打得落花流水，所以说“弥补这段时间的力量真空”是不可能的。
我们怎么能确定中国不会给俄罗斯施压，断了我们的备件供应呢？考虑到苏-30 国产化的比例只有 60%，苏-57 肯定会更低。
老天，你们这些人整天在那杞人忧天，我都快听吐了。说得好像国防参谋长会听特朗普的命令，而不是听穆尔穆的命令似的。 很多人就知道背诵基辛格那句“做美国的朋友比做美国的敌人更危险”以及“战略自主性”，然后只要一提到美国就开始说教。
即使不考虑 F-35 实际造成的作战伤害，它的存在本身就是一种强大的威慑力量。
Limp_Bar_6384
likes: 4
So you're saying India's best move is to tie itself into a maintenance-dependent, politically controlled US supply chain just because F-35(we have us defence tech but F-35 is totally different - not just a jet ; it's a US controlled eco-system) performed well in war games? Japan, South Korea, and Australia have US military presence (iyk what that means) and mutual defense treaties, meaning their F-35 access is guaranteed.
India? Not even close. Turkey got kicked out just for buying S-400s—what happens when India does something Washington doesn't like?
Rafale getting "annihilated" in war games? Against which version of F-35? Because in real-world scenarios, Rafale outmaneuvers and outguns the F-35 in a dogfight(check UAE's joint exercise reports). F-35's strength is in NETWORKED warfare (totally US controlled), not as a lone fighter. Surely no country will be getting the full ecosystem that makes it dominant.
SU-57? Yeah, Russian reliability is questionable, and CAATSA is a concern. But at least Russia won't cut off spare parts at a moment’s notice for "policy reasons" and we have a joint history. Even if only 60% of Su-30 is Indian-made, it’s still better than a 100% dependency on US approval for every upgrade and repair.
And about "strategic autonomy"—it’s funny how people downplay it until they realize how dependent the F-35 makes a country on US goodwill. The F-22 is banned for export precisely because the US doesn't want true air superiority fighters outside its own military.
The "mere presence" of F-35 as a deterrent? Yeah, that US superiority worked great for Taiwan/PAK, right?
India needs indigenous solutions (AMCA), self-reliance in upgrades (Rafale), and smart diplomacy, not a shiny jet that comes with a lease/leash agreement disguised as an arms deal.
The F-35 is cutting-edge, but security isn’t just about only hardware. Trump 2.0 (Mr Republican conservative nationalist, etc..) "America First" showed alliances can be unreliable, and Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program proves US access is conditional
Never forget 1971, Nixon flexed U.S. naval muscle against India (Russia shut it down), while Trump mirrors (even dwarfs) Nixon’s authoritarian-leaning playbook—same GOP
Let alone comparing anything with China they are on a whole different level.
所以你的意思是说，印度最好的选择是把自己拴在对美国供应链具有维护依赖性且受政治控制的链条上，仅仅因为 F-35（我们有自己的国防技术，但是 F-35 是完全不同的——不仅仅是一架战斗机，还是一个由美国控制的生态系统）在军事演习中表现出色吗？日本、韩国和澳大利亚都有美国驻军（你应该知道这意味着什么）和共同防御条约，这意味着他们对 F-35 的使用权是有保障的。
印度呢？差得远呢。土耳其仅仅因为购买了 S-400 就被踢出局了——如果印度做了华盛顿不喜欢的事情，会发生什么？
“阵风”在军事演习中被“歼灭”了？ 是对抗哪个型号的 F-35 呢？ 因为在现实世界中，“阵风”在空战中的机动性和火力都优于 F-35（可以查看阿联酋的联合演习报告）。F-35 的优势在于联网作战（完全由美国控制），而不是作为一架单独的战斗机。当然，没有哪个国家能得到能使其占据主导地位的完整生态系统。
苏-57？没错，俄罗斯的可靠性值得怀疑，《以制裁反击美国敌人法案》也是个担忧。但是至少俄罗斯不会因为 “政策原因” 突然切断备件供应，而且我们也有过合作历史。即使只有 60% 的苏-30 是印度制造的，也比每一步升级和维修都要 100% 依赖美国批准要好得多。
关于“战略自主性”——有趣的是，人们在意识到 F-35 会让一个国家在多大程度上依赖美国的善意之前，总是轻视它。F-22 被禁止出口，正是因为美国不希望本国军队之外存在真正的空中优势战机。
F-35 “仅仅存在”就能作为一种威慑力量？没错，美国的优势在台湾（地区）/巴基斯坦身上发挥了很大的作用，是吧？
印度需要的是本土解决方案（AMCA）、在升级改造上实现自力更生（“阵风”战斗机）以及聪明的外交手段，而不是一款附带租赁/约束协议，伪装成军售交易的炫酷战机。
F-35 是尖端武器，但安全不仅仅是硬件的问题。特朗普 2.0（共和党保守派民族主义者先生等等）的 “美国优先” 政策表明其作为盟友是不可靠的，土耳其被 F-35 项目除名也证明了美国提供的支持是有条件的。
永远不要忘记 1971 年，尼克松动用美国海军力量威胁印度（而苏联制止了它），特朗普在以独裁倾向手段对待盟友方面，甚至和尼克松如出一辙——都是共和党人！
更别提把任何武器与中国做对比了，他们已经不是一个级别了。
likes: 4
So you're saying India's best move is to tie itself into a maintenance-dependent, politically controlled US supply chain just because F-35(we have us defence tech but F-35 is totally different - not just a jet ; it's a US controlled eco-system) performed well in war games? Japan, South Korea, and Australia have US military presence (iyk what that means) and mutual defense treaties, meaning their F-35 access is guaranteed.
India? Not even close. Turkey got kicked out just for buying S-400s—what happens when India does something Washington doesn't like?
Rafale getting "annihilated" in war games? Against which version of F-35? Because in real-world scenarios, Rafale outmaneuvers and outguns the F-35 in a dogfight(check UAE's joint exercise reports). F-35's strength is in NETWORKED warfare (totally US controlled), not as a lone fighter. Surely no country will be getting the full ecosystem that makes it dominant.
SU-57? Yeah, Russian reliability is questionable, and CAATSA is a concern. But at least Russia won't cut off spare parts at a moment’s notice for "policy reasons" and we have a joint history. Even if only 60% of Su-30 is Indian-made, it’s still better than a 100% dependency on US approval for every upgrade and repair.
And about "strategic autonomy"—it’s funny how people downplay it until they realize how dependent the F-35 makes a country on US goodwill. The F-22 is banned for export precisely because the US doesn't want true air superiority fighters outside its own military.
The "mere presence" of F-35 as a deterrent? Yeah, that US superiority worked great for Taiwan/PAK, right?
India needs indigenous solutions (AMCA), self-reliance in upgrades (Rafale), and smart diplomacy, not a shiny jet that comes with a lease/leash agreement disguised as an arms deal.
The F-35 is cutting-edge, but security isn’t just about only hardware. Trump 2.0 (Mr Republican conservative nationalist, etc..) "America First" showed alliances can be unreliable, and Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program proves US access is conditional
Never forget 1971, Nixon flexed U.S. naval muscle against India (Russia shut it down), while Trump mirrors (even dwarfs) Nixon’s authoritarian-leaning playbook—same GOP
Let alone comparing anything with China they are on a whole different level.
所以你的意思是说，印度最好的选择是把自己拴在对美国供应链具有维护依赖性且受政治控制的链条上，仅仅因为 F-35（我们有自己的国防技术，但是 F-35 是完全不同的——不仅仅是一架战斗机，还是一个由美国控制的生态系统）在军事演习中表现出色吗？日本、韩国和澳大利亚都有美国驻军（你应该知道这意味着什么）和共同防御条约，这意味着他们对 F-35 的使用权是有保障的。
印度呢？差得远呢。土耳其仅仅因为购买了 S-400 就被踢出局了——如果印度做了华盛顿不喜欢的事情，会发生什么？
“阵风”在军事演习中被“歼灭”了？ 是对抗哪个型号的 F-35 呢？ 因为在现实世界中，“阵风”在空战中的机动性和火力都优于 F-35（可以查看阿联酋的联合演习报告）。F-35 的优势在于联网作战（完全由美国控制），而不是作为一架单独的战斗机。当然，没有哪个国家能得到能使其占据主导地位的完整生态系统。
苏-57？没错，俄罗斯的可靠性值得怀疑，《以制裁反击美国敌人法案》也是个担忧。但是至少俄罗斯不会因为 “政策原因” 突然切断备件供应，而且我们也有过合作历史。即使只有 60% 的苏-30 是印度制造的，也比每一步升级和维修都要 100% 依赖美国批准要好得多。
关于“战略自主性”——有趣的是，人们在意识到 F-35 会让一个国家在多大程度上依赖美国的善意之前，总是轻视它。F-22 被禁止出口，正是因为美国不希望本国军队之外存在真正的空中优势战机。
F-35 “仅仅存在”就能作为一种威慑力量？没错，美国的优势在台湾（地区）/巴基斯坦身上发挥了很大的作用，是吧？
印度需要的是本土解决方案（AMCA）、在升级改造上实现自力更生（“阵风”战斗机）以及聪明的外交手段，而不是一款附带租赁/约束协议，伪装成军售交易的炫酷战机。
F-35 是尖端武器，但安全不仅仅是硬件的问题。特朗普 2.0（共和党保守派民族主义者先生等等）的 “美国优先” 政策表明其作为盟友是不可靠的，土耳其被 F-35 项目除名也证明了美国提供的支持是有条件的。
永远不要忘记 1971 年，尼克松动用美国海军力量威胁印度（而苏联制止了它），特朗普在以独裁倾向手段对待盟友方面，甚至和尼克松如出一辙——都是共和党人！
更别提把任何武器与中国做对比了，他们已经不是一个级别了。
bhoodhimanthudu
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shouldn't buy because they are super expensive. we won't get to learn how to make them. we will rely too much on others for parts and maintenance. they are still a bit of a gamble and they don't really fit our needs. plus it will take money away from our own defense projects
不应该购买，因为它们价格极其昂贵。我们无法从中学习到制造技术，我们在零部件和维护方面会过度依赖其他国家。它们仍然具有赌博的性质，并且并不真正符合我们的需求。此外，购买F-35会减少对我们自身国防项目的资金投入。
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shouldn't buy because they are super expensive. we won't get to learn how to make them. we will rely too much on others for parts and maintenance. they are still a bit of a gamble and they don't really fit our needs. plus it will take money away from our own defense projects
不应该购买，因为它们价格极其昂贵。我们无法从中学习到制造技术，我们在零部件和维护方面会过度依赖其他国家。它们仍然具有赌博的性质，并且并不真正符合我们的需求。此外，购买F-35会减少对我们自身国防项目的资金投入。
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