丰田氢动力汽车梦想破灭 - 车主起诉丰田
正文翻译
Mirai在日语中是“未来”的意思。当丰田公司豪赌氢能是未来汽车的发展方向时，将其首款氢燃料电池电动汽车命名为丰田Mirai似乎是对这一宏伟目标的最好诠释。
然而，事与愿违。正如早期用户发现的那样，Mirai并不是许多人希望的理想未来。事实上，基础设施的崩溃和折旧让一些车主要求丰田回购，甚至对他们的经历提起诉讼。
如今，他们中的许多人都很愤怒，觉得自己被欺骗了，因为他们觉得自己买了一辆潜力巨大的汽车，但却没有得到必要的燃料基础设施的支持。
然而，事与愿违。正如早期用户发现的那样，Mirai并不是许多人希望的理想未来。事实上，基础设施的崩溃和折旧让一些车主要求丰田回购，甚至对他们的经历提起诉讼。
如今，他们中的许多人都很愤怒，觉得自己被欺骗了，因为他们觉得自己买了一辆潜力巨大的汽车，但却没有得到必要的燃料基础设施的支持。
评论翻译
@RudiJock
I have an acquaintance in Toronto (Canada) who owns a used vehicle dealership. He bought a practically new hydrogen car on auction for $12K(CAD) having no clue about hydrogen other than he hit was the future. He drove it for a couple of days and decided to get it refulled. SHOCK! The closest station was in California. He in turn sold it to a Californian for $6K(CAD). Lesson learned.
我在多伦多有个开二手车行的朋友。他在拍卖会上花1.2万加元买了辆几乎全新的氢能源汽车。他对氢能源一无所知，就觉得这是未来。开了没几天他想加氢。结果懵了！最近的加氢站居然在加利福尼亚。他只好亏本卖给了一个加州人，才卖了6000加元。呵呵，长记性了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I have an acquaintance in Toronto (Canada) who owns a used vehicle dealership. He bought a practically new hydrogen car on auction for $12K(CAD) having no clue about hydrogen other than he hit was the future. He drove it for a couple of days and decided to get it refulled. SHOCK! The closest station was in California. He in turn sold it to a Californian for $6K(CAD). Lesson learned.
我在多伦多有个开二手车行的朋友。他在拍卖会上花1.2万加元买了辆几乎全新的氢能源汽车。他对氢能源一无所知，就觉得这是未来。开了没几天他想加氢。结果懵了！最近的加氢站居然在加利福尼亚。他只好亏本卖给了一个加州人，才卖了6000加元。呵呵，长记性了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@990Hyper
Pure genius
绝对是个天才。
Pure genius
绝对是个天才。
@billbell3737
I did an analysis about 12 years ago on hydrogen powered cars. I determined even if hydrogen could be created for free it was still not economical. The cost of storing, transporting and dispensing it made it cost prohibitive compared to electricity.
大概12年前我分析过氢能源汽车。结论是即使氢气能零成本生产，也完全不划算。光是储存、运输和加注的成本，就比用电贵得多了。
I did an analysis about 12 years ago on hydrogen powered cars. I determined even if hydrogen could be created for free it was still not economical. The cost of storing, transporting and dispensing it made it cost prohibitive compared to electricity.
大概12年前我分析过氢能源汽车。结论是即使氢气能零成本生产，也完全不划算。光是储存、运输和加注的成本，就比用电贵得多了。
@simonreeves2017
Hi Sam, I’m nearly 60YO, the speculation about hydrogen as a fuel has been running my whole life, along with nuclear fusion energy. Neither has come to anything in 60 years. Both have such fundamental problems that are extremely difficult to solve because they are rooted in the laws of physics. Hydrogen is the smallest element in the universe and is highly reactive, this makes it extremely difficult to contain in a fuel tank, and all the hydrogen on Earth exists in compounds formed with other elements. To use it requires a chemical reaction to release free hydrogen. Unless someone can reinvent the physics of our universe, hydrogen will remain an extremely difficult and expensive fuel source.
嗨，山姆，我快60岁了，关于氢燃料的憧憬贯穿了我的一生，跟核聚变一样。这60年来，两个技术都没啥进展。它们都存在根本性的问题，因为这些问题源于物理定律，极难解决。
氢是宇宙中最小的元素，而且很活泼，这让它在燃料箱里特别难存储。地球上的氢都是以化合物形式存在的。要用它就得靠化学反应释放出游离氢。
除非有人能重写宇宙物理定律，否则氢永远都是个极其难搞而且昂贵的燃料来源。
Hi Sam, I’m nearly 60YO, the speculation about hydrogen as a fuel has been running my whole life, along with nuclear fusion energy. Neither has come to anything in 60 years. Both have such fundamental problems that are extremely difficult to solve because they are rooted in the laws of physics. Hydrogen is the smallest element in the universe and is highly reactive, this makes it extremely difficult to contain in a fuel tank, and all the hydrogen on Earth exists in compounds formed with other elements. To use it requires a chemical reaction to release free hydrogen. Unless someone can reinvent the physics of our universe, hydrogen will remain an extremely difficult and expensive fuel source.
嗨，山姆，我快60岁了，关于氢燃料的憧憬贯穿了我的一生，跟核聚变一样。这60年来，两个技术都没啥进展。它们都存在根本性的问题，因为这些问题源于物理定律，极难解决。
氢是宇宙中最小的元素，而且很活泼，这让它在燃料箱里特别难存储。地球上的氢都是以化合物形式存在的。要用它就得靠化学反应释放出游离氢。
除非有人能重写宇宙物理定律，否则氢永远都是个极其难搞而且昂贵的燃料来源。
@gohumberto
ANYONE who knows anything about logistics, energy, and energy supply knew this was crazy idea .... except at Toyota apparently. They need to fire their chief engineer.
- Producing Hydrogen uses a lot of electricity and is inefficient (so why not just put electricity straight into cars?)
- Using Hydrogen fuel cells basically converts it back to electricity inefficiently (so why not just use electric batteries?)
- Transporting vast quantities of liquid hydrogen daily by road is hugely dangerous and relies on (presumably) millions of diesel-powered trucks.
- Storing Hydrogen is difficult. It's very "leaky" and required the installation of a high-pressure storage facility at every "gas station".
- There's zero option for home charging, so your life involves constant pumping of compressed hydrogen at some cold dirty gas-station.
- Drivers now have to pump highly compressed liquid hydrogen into a big metal tank, right behind their children's" seats (You're scared of EV fires? Wait until you see a Hydrogen fire).
- Who wants to live close to a Hydrogen pumping station? (Because you'll almost certainly have gasoline on site as well ..... Now you just created a bomb site).
It's so impractical at virtually EVERY stage, that it's clearly a non-starter for most applications. Maybe it's OK for big Truck depots, where you can store vast quantities on-site, for your fleet, but to distribute liquid hydrogen to every gas-station in the World is just never going to happen, it can't happen, it isn't happening (don't believe me? go find your local Hydrogen filling point).
- - The sheer beauty of EVs is simplicity. "The best part is no part" and the EV process has very few parts.
In the best case the Sun sends you electricity and you distribute it instantly with cables. It goes directly into EV batteries and turns an electric motor (fundamentally one moving part). You just removed thousands of moving parts and complex engineering logistics from the process.
但凡懂点物流和能源常识的人都知道这主意有多荒唐……看来丰田内部是没这号人。他们该开除总工程师了。
- 制氢耗电又低效（那干嘛不直接用电动车？）
- 氢燃料电池把氢转化成电也很低效（那还不如直接用电池呢）
- 每天用卡车运输大量液态氢太危险了，还得靠（估计）上百万辆柴油卡车。
- 储存氢气很麻烦。它特别容易泄漏，每个加油站都得装高压储存设备。
- 完全不能在家充能，你得老往又冷又脏的加气站跑。
- 司机得往孩子座椅后面的大金属罐里充高压液态氢（你要是觉得电动车起火吓人，等着看氢气着火吧）。
- 谁愿意住在氢气加注站附近啊？（因为那儿肯定还存着汽油……这不就成炸弹库了吗）。
这玩意儿每个环节都不实用，根本就是个死胡同。
也许对大型卡车车队还行，你可以在基地存大量氢气自用。但想在全球每个加油站都配氢气？做梦去吧，不可能的，也没人这么干（不信？你去找找最近的加氢站在哪）。
- 电动车最美的地方就是简单。零件越少越好，电动车的工作原理很简单。
理想情况下，阳光产生的电直接通过电缆输送。电能直接进入电池，驱动电机（基本上就一个运动部件）。这下省掉了上千个运动部件和复杂的工程物流。
ANYONE who knows anything about logistics, energy, and energy supply knew this was crazy idea .... except at Toyota apparently. They need to fire their chief engineer.
- Producing Hydrogen uses a lot of electricity and is inefficient (so why not just put electricity straight into cars?)
- Using Hydrogen fuel cells basically converts it back to electricity inefficiently (so why not just use electric batteries?)
- Transporting vast quantities of liquid hydrogen daily by road is hugely dangerous and relies on (presumably) millions of diesel-powered trucks.
- Storing Hydrogen is difficult. It's very "leaky" and required the installation of a high-pressure storage facility at every "gas station".
- There's zero option for home charging, so your life involves constant pumping of compressed hydrogen at some cold dirty gas-station.
- Drivers now have to pump highly compressed liquid hydrogen into a big metal tank, right behind their children's" seats (You're scared of EV fires? Wait until you see a Hydrogen fire).
- Who wants to live close to a Hydrogen pumping station? (Because you'll almost certainly have gasoline on site as well ..... Now you just created a bomb site).
It's so impractical at virtually EVERY stage, that it's clearly a non-starter for most applications. Maybe it's OK for big Truck depots, where you can store vast quantities on-site, for your fleet, but to distribute liquid hydrogen to every gas-station in the World is just never going to happen, it can't happen, it isn't happening (don't believe me? go find your local Hydrogen filling point).
- - The sheer beauty of EVs is simplicity. "The best part is no part" and the EV process has very few parts.
In the best case the Sun sends you electricity and you distribute it instantly with cables. It goes directly into EV batteries and turns an electric motor (fundamentally one moving part). You just removed thousands of moving parts and complex engineering logistics from the process.
但凡懂点物流和能源常识的人都知道这主意有多荒唐……看来丰田内部是没这号人。他们该开除总工程师了。
- 制氢耗电又低效（那干嘛不直接用电动车？）
- 氢燃料电池把氢转化成电也很低效（那还不如直接用电池呢）
- 每天用卡车运输大量液态氢太危险了，还得靠（估计）上百万辆柴油卡车。
- 储存氢气很麻烦。它特别容易泄漏，每个加油站都得装高压储存设备。
- 完全不能在家充能，你得老往又冷又脏的加气站跑。
- 司机得往孩子座椅后面的大金属罐里充高压液态氢（你要是觉得电动车起火吓人，等着看氢气着火吧）。
- 谁愿意住在氢气加注站附近啊？（因为那儿肯定还存着汽油……这不就成炸弹库了吗）。
这玩意儿每个环节都不实用，根本就是个死胡同。
也许对大型卡车车队还行，你可以在基地存大量氢气自用。但想在全球每个加油站都配氢气？做梦去吧，不可能的，也没人这么干（不信？你去找找最近的加氢站在哪）。
- 电动车最美的地方就是简单。零件越少越好，电动车的工作原理很简单。
理想情况下，阳光产生的电直接通过电缆输送。电能直接进入电池，驱动电机（基本上就一个运动部件）。这下省掉了上千个运动部件和复杂的工程物流。
@antonio_fosnjar
Biggest car company in the world thought it had enough power and money to influence the whole market
全球最大的车企以为有钱有势就能左右整个市场。
Biggest car company in the world thought it had enough power and money to influence the whole market
全球最大的车企以为有钱有势就能左右整个市场。
@bertho6701
Sounds like the Japanese thinking back in the 80’s. Remember Sony memory stick?
这不就是80年代日本人的思维吗？还记得索尼记忆棒不？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Sounds like the Japanese thinking back in the 80’s. Remember Sony memory stick?
这不就是80年代日本人的思维吗？还记得索尼记忆棒不？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@andrewlim7751
One thing common about Chinese and Japanese, they both wanna control the market, the winner takes all mindset.
中国人和日本人有个共同点，都想垄断市场，都有赢家通吃的心态。
@不死鳥-u4e
One thing common about Chinese and Japanese, they both wanna control the market, the winner takes all mindset.
中国人和日本人有个共同点，都想垄断市场，都有赢家通吃的心态。
@不死鳥-u4e
Toyota is rich, so they don't care if it takes 50 years for hydrogen to be put to practical use. Toyota Research & Development Laboratory, Inc., the basic research institute of the Toyota Group, is conducting research on "artificial photosynthesis" and extracting hydrogen from "formic acid."
丰田有钱，所以他们不在乎氢能源要五十年才能实用化。丰田集团的基础研究机构——丰田研究所正在研究“人工光合成”和从“甲酸”中提取氢气。
丰田有钱，所以他们不在乎氢能源要五十年才能实用化。丰田集团的基础研究机构——丰田研究所正在研究“人工光合成”和从“甲酸”中提取氢气。
@adamesd3699
I remember being told that Hydrogen cars are the future twenty years ago. This was expected to happen by 2040. But in the meantime the EV revolution happened.
我记得二十年前就有人说氢能源汽车是未来。说到2040年就能实现。结果没等到氢能源，电动革命先来了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I remember being told that Hydrogen cars are the future twenty years ago. This was expected to happen by 2040. But in the meantime the EV revolution happened.
我记得二十年前就有人说氢能源汽车是未来。说到2040年就能实现。结果没等到氢能源，电动革命先来了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@keithng5249
The 134 buyers of Toyota's hydrogen cars are probably employees or substantial shareholders of the company
买丰田氢能源车的那134个人，八成都是公司员工或大股东。
The 134 buyers of Toyota's hydrogen cars are probably employees or substantial shareholders of the company
买丰田氢能源车的那134个人，八成都是公司员工或大股东。
@JIMMY-nz1ld
If Toyota is so believed hydrogen cars they should get their sales in Japan up first than global market.
丰田要是真信氢能源车，应该先在日本本土搞起来，再考虑全球市场。
If Toyota is so believed hydrogen cars they should get their sales in Japan up first than global market.
丰田要是真信氢能源车，应该先在日本本土搞起来，再考虑全球市场。
@glenthegoalsguy
Hydrogen leaks more easily than any other gas.
氢气比任何气体都容易泄漏。
Hydrogen leaks more easily than any other gas.
氢气比任何气体都容易泄漏。
@nerdbikes3841
The entire point of an EV to me was freeing myself from the chains of the gas station business model. With gasoline vehicles you must go 100% of the time to oil industry crack dealer. With EVs, I can charge from my solar panels at home, from the grid at home, from hotel slow chargers, or from Superchargers. It’s no contest. I;m free.
对我来说，电动车最棒的就是摆脱了加油站那套。
开汽油车就得百分百依赖石油公司那帮贩子。开电动车，我可以用家里的太阳能板充电，用市电充电，用酒店的慢充，或者用超级充电桩。这完全没得比。我自由了。
The entire point of an EV to me was freeing myself from the chains of the gas station business model. With gasoline vehicles you must go 100% of the time to oil industry crack dealer. With EVs, I can charge from my solar panels at home, from the grid at home, from hotel slow chargers, or from Superchargers. It’s no contest. I;m free.
对我来说，电动车最棒的就是摆脱了加油站那套。
开汽油车就得百分百依赖石油公司那帮贩子。开电动车，我可以用家里的太阳能板充电，用市电充电，用酒店的慢充，或者用超级充电桩。这完全没得比。我自由了。
@vinniechan
Japan betted on hydrogen early
Problem with storing energy as hydrogen is converting hydrogen is very inefficient
日本早早就押注氢能源了
问题是用氢气储能效率太低了。
Japan betted on hydrogen early
Problem with storing energy as hydrogen is converting hydrogen is very inefficient
日本早早就押注氢能源了
问题是用氢气储能效率太低了。
@jwstolk
Hydrogen was a good bet, even with the inefficiency, when battery technology was not sufficient to build a BEV with reasonable range for a reasonable price. The problem was continuing to bet on it when battery technology improved. Hydrogen could still be a viable option for large planes and ships, but battery technology can now handle any road transport.
在电池技术还不足以造出续航合理、价格合理的纯电动车时，押注氢能源是个不错的选择，即便效率低。
问题是当电池技术进步后还死咬着不放。氢能源可能仍然合大型飞机和轮船，但电池技术现在已经能满足所有陆路交通需求了。
Hydrogen was a good bet, even with the inefficiency, when battery technology was not sufficient to build a BEV with reasonable range for a reasonable price. The problem was continuing to bet on it when battery technology improved. Hydrogen could still be a viable option for large planes and ships, but battery technology can now handle any road transport.
在电池技术还不足以造出续航合理、价格合理的纯电动车时，押注氢能源是个不错的选择，即便效率低。
问题是当电池技术进步后还死咬着不放。氢能源可能仍然合大型飞机和轮船，但电池技术现在已经能满足所有陆路交通需求了。
@KanedaSyndrome
Especially if the point of hydrogen is to make it into electricity, then why not just store it as electricity to begin with and skip a volatile step (hydrogen)
特别是如果氢动力的目的是为了发电，那为什么不直接用来发电，跳过这个不稳定的环节（氢）呢。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Especially if the point of hydrogen is to make it into electricity, then why not just store it as electricity to begin with and skip a volatile step (hydrogen)
特别是如果氢动力的目的是为了发电，那为什么不直接用来发电，跳过这个不稳定的环节（氢）呢。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@AndyM...
Yeah Nah, the ability to EASILY generate your own fuel (often for free) for a normal EV, trumps having to go to somewhere else to get it. Hydrogen won't survive !
得了吧，能轻松自己发电（而且常常是免费的）供普通电动车用，这点就完胜还得跑去加氢。氢能源撑不下去了！
Yeah Nah, the ability to EASILY generate your own fuel (often for free) for a normal EV, trumps having to go to somewhere else to get it. Hydrogen won't survive !
得了吧，能轻松自己发电（而且常常是免费的）供普通电动车用，这点就完胜还得跑去加氢。氢能源撑不下去了！
@Jaw0lf
They got it majorly wrong. The cost of hydrogen stations are crazy there were very few of them and then you pay a lot more for hydrogen. All of which the EV solves.On top of that EV's are selling massively now and are increasing every month.
丰田这次完全搞错了。氢气加气站的成本太高了，还特别少。而且加氢的费用也贵得要命。这些问题电动车都解决了。更别说现在电动车的销量在疯狂增长，每个月都在上涨。
They got it majorly wrong. The cost of hydrogen stations are crazy there were very few of them and then you pay a lot more for hydrogen. All of which the EV solves.On top of that EV's are selling massively now and are increasing every month.
丰田这次完全搞错了。氢气加气站的成本太高了，还特别少。而且加氢的费用也贵得要命。这些问题电动车都解决了。更别说现在电动车的销量在疯狂增长，每个月都在上涨。
@philflip1963
Just What were Toyota up to?
I find it incredible to believe that they actually believed that Hydrogen was a viable technology!
丰田到底在想什么啊？
真是难以置信他们居然会认为氢能源是个可行的技术！
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Just What were Toyota up to?
I find it incredible to believe that they actually believed that Hydrogen was a viable technology!
丰田到底在想什么啊？
真是难以置信他们居然会认为氢能源是个可行的技术！
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@dogsbodyish8403
Only the very technically challenged think hydrogen is a viable alternative for cars. Pretty amazing that Toyota management fell into that category. For the money they wasted, they might have been by now a credible competitor to the Chinese for battery technology. As it is, they've blown it completely.
只有那些技术白痴才会觉得氢能源能用在汽车上。真是不可思议，丰田的管理层居然也是这样的人。
要是把他们浪费的那些钱用在开发电池技术上，现在说不定都能跟中国企业掰掰手腕了。结果呢，他们把一切都搞砸了。
Only the very technically challenged think hydrogen is a viable alternative for cars. Pretty amazing that Toyota management fell into that category. For the money they wasted, they might have been by now a credible competitor to the Chinese for battery technology. As it is, they've blown it completely.
只有那些技术白痴才会觉得氢能源能用在汽车上。真是不可思议，丰田的管理层居然也是这样的人。
要是把他们浪费的那些钱用在开发电池技术上，现在说不定都能跟中国企业掰掰手腕了。结果呢，他们把一切都搞砸了。
@erktrek
Well for one they are trying to delay people from buying EVs until They (Toyota) can come up with their own profitable solution which currently looks like Hybrids. Remember Toyota also claimed in 2013 that their amazing but mysterious dry cell battery tech would be starting production in 2020...
其实他们就是想拖延大家买电动车，好让丰田自己能先搞出个赚钱的方案，看样子现在就是搞混动车。
别忘了丰田在2013年还吹嘘说他们那个神奇又神秘的固态电池技术会在2020年开始量产呢……
Well for one they are trying to delay people from buying EVs until They (Toyota) can come up with their own profitable solution which currently looks like Hybrids. Remember Toyota also claimed in 2013 that their amazing but mysterious dry cell battery tech would be starting production in 2020...
其实他们就是想拖延大家买电动车，好让丰田自己能先搞出个赚钱的方案，看样子现在就是搞混动车。
别忘了丰田在2013年还吹嘘说他们那个神奇又神秘的固态电池技术会在2020年开始量产呢……
@grahamcampbell8297
Meanwhile BYD sell 4 million EV’s in 2024!
比亚迪2024年可是要卖400万辆电动车的呢！
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Meanwhile BYD sell 4 million EV’s in 2024!
比亚迪2024年可是要卖400万辆电动车的呢！
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@iCozzh
Byd does not sell 4 million evs lmfao. Half their evs are just a little tykes car with the crumple zone being your face, that number is new energy vehicles which includes hybrids
笑死，比亚迪才不是卖了400万辆纯电动车呢。他们一半的车就是些玩具车，撞上去脸都能当缓冲，那个数字其实是新能源车，包括了混动车。
Byd does not sell 4 million evs lmfao. Half their evs are just a little tykes car with the crumple zone being your face, that number is new energy vehicles which includes hybrids
笑死，比亚迪才不是卖了400万辆纯电动车呢。他们一半的车就是些玩具车，撞上去脸都能当缓冲，那个数字其实是新能源车，包括了混动车。
@zotter2542
But I will never buy a dictators car or a fascist car. So, no BYD, and no Tesla for me. Renault Megane is great.
我可不会买独裁者的车，也不会买法西斯的车。所以，比亚迪和特斯拉我都不会买。雷诺梅甘娜就挺好。
But I will never buy a dictators car or a fascist car. So, no BYD, and no Tesla for me. Renault Megane is great.
我可不会买独裁者的车，也不会买法西斯的车。所以，比亚迪和特斯拉我都不会买。雷诺梅甘娜就挺好。
@WernerHNel
No wonder Legacy Auto is dying. They all sell you the absolute minimum for the absolute most money.
难怪传统车企都快完蛋了。他们就知道卖最差的东西要最贵的价钱。
No wonder Legacy Auto is dying. They all sell you the absolute minimum for the absolute most money.
难怪传统车企都快完蛋了。他们就知道卖最差的东西要最贵的价钱。
@whocareswhoami7278
Energy conversion efficiency of hydrogen cars is around 30% and battery EVs is around 94%.
氢能源汽车的能量转换效率只有30%，而纯电动车能达到94%。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Energy conversion efficiency of hydrogen cars is around 30% and battery EVs is around 94%.
氢能源汽车的能量转换效率只有30%，而纯电动车能达到94%。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@tonywagner4836
Toyota completly underestimated the potential and speed of technological advancement of ev transportation.
丰田完全低估了电动车技术的潜力和发展速度。
Toyota completly underestimated the potential and speed of technological advancement of ev transportation.
丰田完全低估了电动车技术的潜力和发展速度。
@stopdropnroll
Toyota will go down as the Kodak of the auto industry
丰田会成为汽车界的柯达。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Toyota will go down as the Kodak of the auto industry
丰田会成为汽车界的柯达。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@jevgeniardassov
Can we please stop comparing fuelling at a station to home charging or solar? It is not available for everyone. In my country 86% of people live in flats and mostly is not allowed to install a charger in an apartment building due to many reasons. And charging at a DC charger costs at least 56 eurocents per KW at 100 kw, 68 cents at 150 kw and 87 cents at 300 kw. So charging there is also more expensive than a diesel or a petrol never mind the HEV or PHEV.
能不能别总是拿加油站跟家用充电或太阳能充电比较？不是每个人都能用的上。
在我们国家，86%的人住公寓，而且因为各种原因，大多数公寓楼都不允许安装充电桩。
在快充站充电还贵得要命，100千瓦的要每度56欧分，150千瓦的要68欧分，300千瓦的要87欧分。所以在那充电比用柴油或汽油还贵，更别说混动和插混了。
Can we please stop comparing fuelling at a station to home charging or solar? It is not available for everyone. In my country 86% of people live in flats and mostly is not allowed to install a charger in an apartment building due to many reasons. And charging at a DC charger costs at least 56 eurocents per KW at 100 kw, 68 cents at 150 kw and 87 cents at 300 kw. So charging there is also more expensive than a diesel or a petrol never mind the HEV or PHEV.
能不能别总是拿加油站跟家用充电或太阳能充电比较？不是每个人都能用的上。
在我们国家，86%的人住公寓，而且因为各种原因，大多数公寓楼都不允许安装充电桩。
在快充站充电还贵得要命，100千瓦的要每度56欧分，150千瓦的要68欧分，300千瓦的要87欧分。所以在那充电比用柴油或汽油还贵，更别说混动和插混了。
@dontuckerjr
So many bad decisions by automakers. Germany, Japan, USA. Your recent video about the renewable power coming to a power plant in Texas is a clear sign that battery technology is the future.
这些车企都做了太多错误决定。德国、日本、美国都是。你最近那个关于德州发电厂用可再生能源的视频明确显示，电池技术就是未来。
So many bad decisions by automakers. Germany, Japan, USA. Your recent video about the renewable power coming to a power plant in Texas is a clear sign that battery technology is the future.
这些车企都做了太多错误决定。德国、日本、美国都是。你最近那个关于德州发电厂用可再生能源的视频明确显示，电池技术就是未来。
@ppeterzhong
Interestingly enough, China is not really giving up on hydrogen. Not hydrogen for passenger cars but hydrogen freight train, freight trucks, or very high power density demanding transportation. Besides industrial byproducts (blue hydrogen), energy storage, direct sea water hydrogen generation, etc., are still driving the future demand or at least remains to be feasible for future applications. Anyways, no options are given up yet although some markets/applications are not justified.
有意思的是，中国并没有完全放弃氢能源。不过不是用在私家车上，而是用在氢能源货运列车、货车，或者对动力密度要求特别高的运输工具上。
除了工业副产品（蓝氢）外，能源储存、直接海水制氢等技术，依然在推动未来需求，或者至少在未来应用中还是可行的。总的来说，虽然某些市场和应用不太合适，但没有完全放弃。
Interestingly enough, China is not really giving up on hydrogen. Not hydrogen for passenger cars but hydrogen freight train, freight trucks, or very high power density demanding transportation. Besides industrial byproducts (blue hydrogen), energy storage, direct sea water hydrogen generation, etc., are still driving the future demand or at least remains to be feasible for future applications. Anyways, no options are given up yet although some markets/applications are not justified.
有意思的是，中国并没有完全放弃氢能源。不过不是用在私家车上，而是用在氢能源货运列车、货车，或者对动力密度要求特别高的运输工具上。
除了工业副产品（蓝氢）外，能源储存、直接海水制氢等技术，依然在推动未来需求，或者至少在未来应用中还是可行的。总的来说，虽然某些市场和应用不太合适，但没有完全放弃。
@utahman3953
The problems with containing, using and supply logistics are obvious. Toyotas scientists and engineers are smart. They must have known they had unsolvable problems from the beginning, so why did they continue this hydrogen scheme and waste R&D and customer loyalty? Were they given money and directives from other entities?
储存、使用和供应链方面的问题一目了然。丰田的科学家和工程师都很聪明，他们一开始就肯定知道这些问题无法解决，那为什么还要继续搞这个氢能源项目，浪费研发资金和客户忠诚度呢？是不是有其他势力给他们钱和指示？
The problems with containing, using and supply logistics are obvious. Toyotas scientists and engineers are smart. They must have known they had unsolvable problems from the beginning, so why did they continue this hydrogen scheme and waste R&D and customer loyalty? Were they given money and directives from other entities?
储存、使用和供应链方面的问题一目了然。丰田的科学家和工程师都很聪明，他们一开始就肯定知道这些问题无法解决，那为什么还要继续搞这个氢能源项目，浪费研发资金和客户忠诚度呢？是不是有其他势力给他们钱和指示？
@garycarmichael8432
Being a Toyota owner, I do like their cars, but I do believe that Toyota are behind the curve with BEVs and have dropped the ball with hydrogen powered cars. While there may be a use for hydrogen powered public transport and freight transportation, it seems impractical for the motor car. Hydrogen is expensive to produce, either to the environment, with grey hydrogen, or financially with blue hydrogen. It’s not easy to store, it has to be liquidized in tanks and the infrastructure is simply not there to accommodate it. I live in the UK and I really can’t see a take up of hydrogen stations here.
作为一个丰田车主，我挺喜欢他们的车，但我觉得丰田在纯电动车领域确实落后了，在氢能源汽车上也搞砸了。
虽然氢能源可能适合公共交通和货运，但用在私家车上似乎不太实际。制氢要么对环境不友好（灰氢），要么成本太高（蓝氢）。
而且储存很麻烦，必须液化后存在罐子里，基础设施也跟不上。我生活在英国，真看不出这里会普及加氢站。
Being a Toyota owner, I do like their cars, but I do believe that Toyota are behind the curve with BEVs and have dropped the ball with hydrogen powered cars. While there may be a use for hydrogen powered public transport and freight transportation, it seems impractical for the motor car. Hydrogen is expensive to produce, either to the environment, with grey hydrogen, or financially with blue hydrogen. It’s not easy to store, it has to be liquidized in tanks and the infrastructure is simply not there to accommodate it. I live in the UK and I really can’t see a take up of hydrogen stations here.
作为一个丰田车主，我挺喜欢他们的车，但我觉得丰田在纯电动车领域确实落后了，在氢能源汽车上也搞砸了。
虽然氢能源可能适合公共交通和货运，但用在私家车上似乎不太实际。制氢要么对环境不友好（灰氢），要么成本太高（蓝氢）。
而且储存很麻烦，必须液化后存在罐子里，基础设施也跟不上。我生活在英国，真看不出这里会普及加氢站。
@adilfatima
Toyota was a great company and great brand. Unfortunately only example can compare them with is Nokia. Nokia did not adopt Android and also did not had anything close to IOS. They just read the market wrong and unfortunately were eliminated from market. In cars the process is bit slow but Toyota is on same trajectory. They need a massive course correction or this Japanese ICON may disappear in 5 to 7 years.
丰田曾经是个伟大的公司和品牌。不幸的是，唯一能跟它比的就是诺基亚。诺基亚不采用安卓系统，也没有能跟iOS抗衡的东西。
他们对市场判断错误，最终被淘汰出局。汽车行业的变革虽然慢一些，但丰田正走在同样的路上。如果不来个大转向，这个日本标杆企业可能5到7年就会消失。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Toyota was a great company and great brand. Unfortunately only example can compare them with is Nokia. Nokia did not adopt Android and also did not had anything close to IOS. They just read the market wrong and unfortunately were eliminated from market. In cars the process is bit slow but Toyota is on same trajectory. They need a massive course correction or this Japanese ICON may disappear in 5 to 7 years.
丰田曾经是个伟大的公司和品牌。不幸的是，唯一能跟它比的就是诺基亚。诺基亚不采用安卓系统，也没有能跟iOS抗衡的东西。
他们对市场判断错误，最终被淘汰出局。汽车行业的变革虽然慢一些，但丰田正走在同样的路上。如果不来个大转向，这个日本标杆企业可能5到7年就会消失。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@chrisbraid2907
Hydrogen isn’t cheap is it, hydrocarbon Fuel is much cheaper, so why switch? It’s almost unavailable , it’s dangerous to the equipment that has to store and transfer it and the time between critical services is also going to be short … it’s a super hazard and not a long term solution to the clean transportation problems … they think smarter engineering with new alloys will solve many of the problems but they risk the most catastrophic of accidents … that’s my greatest fear with hydrogen vehicles …
氢气根本不便宜，碳氢燃料便宜多了，那干嘛要转换？
而且几乎没买不到，对储存和运输设备来说很危险，关键维护间隔还得很短。
这简直就是个超级隐患，根本不是解决清洁交通问题的长期方案。
他们以为用新合金，更智能的工程设计，就能解决很多问题，但这样反而可能引发最严重的事故……这就是我最担心氢能源车的地方。
Hydrogen isn’t cheap is it, hydrocarbon Fuel is much cheaper, so why switch? It’s almost unavailable , it’s dangerous to the equipment that has to store and transfer it and the time between critical services is also going to be short … it’s a super hazard and not a long term solution to the clean transportation problems … they think smarter engineering with new alloys will solve many of the problems but they risk the most catastrophic of accidents … that’s my greatest fear with hydrogen vehicles …
氢气根本不便宜，碳氢燃料便宜多了，那干嘛要转换？
而且几乎没买不到，对储存和运输设备来说很危险，关键维护间隔还得很短。
这简直就是个超级隐患，根本不是解决清洁交通问题的长期方案。
他们以为用新合金，更智能的工程设计，就能解决很多问题，但这样反而可能引发最严重的事故……这就是我最担心氢能源车的地方。
@moffattF
Hydrogen can only deliver a certain amount of energy. That is fixed. On the other hand, battery capacity is improving in leaps and bounds.
氢能源能提供的能量是有限的，这是确定的。而电池容量却在突飞猛进地提升。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Hydrogen can only deliver a certain amount of energy. That is fixed. On the other hand, battery capacity is improving in leaps and bounds.
氢能源能提供的能量是有限的，这是确定的。而电池容量却在突飞猛进地提升。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@billharding8411
I used to think hydrogen was the way forward. I realized several years ago the basic fact that converting whatever to hydrogen means an efficiency loss, transporting it or filling a tank involves pumps and energy for storage which is an additional loss, and having to hold it at high pressures and low temps in a car is a further loss, and hydrogen will always slowly leak, as opposed to batteries which involve much less loss of efficiency. The only issues now are weight and charging speed, and both of those are being solved pretty quickly.
我以前觉得氢能是未来的方向。几年前我认识到一个基本事实：把其他能源转化成氢气必然会损失效率。
运输或加注过程中需要用泵和储存能源，这又会带来额外损耗。在车里还得高压低温储存，这更是一种损耗。
而且氢气总是会慢慢泄漏。相比之下，电池的效率损失要小得多。现在唯一的问题就是重量和充电速度，这两个问题都在快速解决。
I used to think hydrogen was the way forward. I realized several years ago the basic fact that converting whatever to hydrogen means an efficiency loss, transporting it or filling a tank involves pumps and energy for storage which is an additional loss, and having to hold it at high pressures and low temps in a car is a further loss, and hydrogen will always slowly leak, as opposed to batteries which involve much less loss of efficiency. The only issues now are weight and charging speed, and both of those are being solved pretty quickly.
我以前觉得氢能是未来的方向。几年前我认识到一个基本事实：把其他能源转化成氢气必然会损失效率。
运输或加注过程中需要用泵和储存能源，这又会带来额外损耗。在车里还得高压低温储存，这更是一种损耗。
而且氢气总是会慢慢泄漏。相比之下，电池的效率损失要小得多。现在唯一的问题就是重量和充电速度，这两个问题都在快速解决。
@twu905
Another Kodak moment, Blockbuster moment, Nokia moment, Xerox Alto moment, etc.
又一个柯达时刻，百视达时刻，诺基亚时刻，施乐时刻，等等。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Another Kodak moment, Blockbuster moment, Nokia moment, Xerox Alto moment, etc.
又一个柯达时刻，百视达时刻，诺基亚时刻，施乐时刻，等等。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@dougm659
Unbelievably, Toyota is still advertising its hydrogen powered cars in the UK…..perhaps no one has told them that all the hydrogen filling stations have been closed?
简直不可思议，丰田还在英国做氢能源汽车的广告……难道没人告诉他们所有加氢站都关门了吗？
Unbelievably, Toyota is still advertising its hydrogen powered cars in the UK…..perhaps no one has told them that all the hydrogen filling stations have been closed?
简直不可思议，丰田还在英国做氢能源汽车的广告……难道没人告诉他们所有加氢站都关门了吗？
@MrTechysal
Sucks and limited
又贵又受限
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Sucks and limited
又贵又受限
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@fatdoi003
when their domestic market not selling any, what makes foreign markets want to fall for it?
连他们国内市场都卖不动，凭什么指望国外市场会上当？
when their domestic market not selling any, what makes foreign markets want to fall for it?
连他们国内市场都卖不动，凭什么指望国外市场会上当？
@cszuhan
Toyota believes that electric vehicles will not be accepted by people so quickly, and there is still time to wait for breakthroughs in the development of hydrogen-powered vehicles. Toyota did not expect that electric vehicles would advance faster than expected.
丰田认为电动汽车不会这么快被人们接受，觉得还有时间等氢能源汽车取得突破。丰田没想到电动汽车的发展速度超出预期。
Toyota believes that electric vehicles will not be accepted by people so quickly, and there is still time to wait for breakthroughs in the development of hydrogen-powered vehicles. Toyota did not expect that electric vehicles would advance faster than expected.
丰田认为电动汽车不会这么快被人们接受，觉得还有时间等氢能源汽车取得突破。丰田没想到电动汽车的发展速度超出预期。
@landerrussell2100
Toyota wants others to complete the most difficult tasks of hydrogen extraction, storage, transportation, etc., and sells its own hydrogen powered vehicles, but neither the US & China has the willingness to invest for Japan.
丰田想让别人完成氢气提取、储存、运输等最艰难的任务，自己只管卖氢能源汽车，但是美国和中国都不愿意为日本投资。
Toyota wants others to complete the most difficult tasks of hydrogen extraction, storage, transportation, etc., and sells its own hydrogen powered vehicles, but neither the US & China has the willingness to invest for Japan.
丰田想让别人完成氢气提取、储存、运输等最艰难的任务，自己只管卖氢能源汽车，但是美国和中国都不愿意为日本投资。
@ChickensAndGardening
Toyota's attitude toward hydrogen reflects a general Japanese mentality of preserving "the old ways". Hydrogen and fuel cells were in development in the 1970s (and even earlier) and long have been touted as a solution to dirty fossil fuel. The battery revolution has outflanked them, though, and Japan is still trying to turn on a dime and get with the program.
丰田对氢能源的态度反映了日本人固守旧制的普遍心态。氢气和燃料电池从1970年代（甚至更早）就开始研发，一直被吹捧是解决化石燃料污染的方案。但电池革命已经让他们措手不及，日本现在还在死命转向想跟上潮流。
Toyota's attitude toward hydrogen reflects a general Japanese mentality of preserving "the old ways". Hydrogen and fuel cells were in development in the 1970s (and even earlier) and long have been touted as a solution to dirty fossil fuel. The battery revolution has outflanked them, though, and Japan is still trying to turn on a dime and get with the program.
丰田对氢能源的态度反映了日本人固守旧制的普遍心态。氢气和燃料电池从1970年代（甚至更早）就开始研发，一直被吹捧是解决化石燃料污染的方案。但电池革命已经让他们措手不及，日本现在还在死命转向想跟上潮流。
@aureliancozma251
The Japanese are smart people but the hydrogen car is the biggest stupidity - I can't explain what's on the minds of the Toyota engineers ?????
日本人很聪明，但氢能源汽车简直蠢到家了 - 我真搞不懂丰田工程师脑子里在想什么？？？
The Japanese are smart people but the hydrogen car is the biggest stupidity - I can't explain what's on the minds of the Toyota engineers ?????
日本人很聪明，但氢能源汽车简直蠢到家了 - 我真搞不懂丰田工程师脑子里在想什么？？？
@KennyL0009
Shell has closed 6 out of 7 of its passenger car hydrogen refueling stations in California in 2024.
2024年，壳牌在加州的7个乘用车加氢站已经关闭了6个。
Shell has closed 6 out of 7 of its passenger car hydrogen refueling stations in California in 2024.
2024年，壳牌在加州的7个乘用车加氢站已经关闭了6个。
@angley3985
I do believe that hydrogen will be a big game changer for trains, plane and boats... but unless you are having a distribution system, it will never take off.
我确实相信氢能会给火车、飞机和轮船带来重大变革……但是除非你有完整的配套系统，否则它永远不可能真正起飞。
I do believe that hydrogen will be a big game changer for trains, plane and boats... but unless you are having a distribution system, it will never take off.
我确实相信氢能会给火车、飞机和轮船带来重大变革……但是除非你有完整的配套系统，否则它永远不可能真正起飞。
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